Frunks, Boron Steel and how not to get electrocuted tips with Firefighter JJ Johnson

Stephen J: (00:11)
Welcome to behind the tin, a podcast that introduces you to the ROIC men and women who wear the tin while protecting our community and hearing about the extraordinary things they're doing when their badge is in their locker. I'm Steven J the good Lieutenant along with Justin, the civilian producer greetings. My good friend today's episode is brought to you by verify home inspections, verify home inspection for all your personal inspection needs. Professional inspection services for buyers, sellers, renters, agents, and homeowners. For more information, visit verify home inspection.com also brought to you by those guys. print.com. Those guys for all your custom apparel needs. Visit those guys. print.com. Today's cocktail over conversation is sponsored by Dave Q, Dave Q of so's New York. Thank you today, Justin and I are gonna indulge some belong a from the Hyde park brewery. Ooh, it's my favorite absolute favorite. Dave Q, thank you so much.

Stephen J: (01:06)
If you wanna sponsor cocktails over conversation, visit behind the ten.com and follow the links. Justin. Today we have a guy that I've known for a super long time high energy guy that has just followed his childhood dream and be became a firefighter. Wow. JJ Johnson is the epitome of high energy drive, helpfulness leadership, a guy that just wants to help everyone he can. And he has taken some knowledge that he's gained in his fire career, turned it into a business, but it's really interesting. So stuff, cuz it's such a niche that I didn't even realize what it was until I read his bio. Wow. I can't wait to get into it and find out what this is all about. So think he's gonna have some interesting stuff that you're gonna be interested in with some cars cuz you're the car guy here. I love cars. Yeah. So let's uh, let's get JJ on the, on the line here. Okay. We're here with JJ Johnson. A good friend of mine from long ago. JJ. How you doing today buddy? Man?

JJ: (02:15)
Fantastic brothers. Always. You know me. So

Stephen J: (02:18)
JJ, you're a firefighter driver down in Durham, North Carolina. Correct. How long you been a fire or North Carolina? Jay? Uh, since

JJ: (02:26)
September 9th, 2001. So

Stephen J: (02:29)
Quite some time. What, uh, what brought you to becoming a firefighter? North Carolina? I know your, your history's in New York, but yeah, you're down there now.

JJ: (02:37)
Yeah. History in New York. So when uh, the wife and I were back here visiting my brother and my sister, uh, from my mom's birthday back, uh, in 2001 or 2000, the wife wanted the decided to moved back here instead of coming back to New York or back to New Hampshire where we're from, she didn't want to, she didn't want any more winter. So it was easier to get hired down here than it is up there. I mean, I got hired right away, uh, everywhere. I went between Durham, Durham county and, and Cary, I got hired right on the first go around. So, uh, it's been nice. Been a good ride.

Stephen J: (03:13)
Now you're a guy that started in the volunteer firefighting world. Uh, how old were you when you started that? Quite you? I would imagine.

JJ: (03:20)
Yeah. It's January 14th, 1980. I was 16 years old,

Stephen J: (03:24)
1980. Uh, I don't think Justin, the good producer was even alive yet in

JJ: (03:29)
September of 1980. I was. Okay.

Stephen J: (03:32)
So, so we're talking some years here and your experience now for the, the young kids, especially to listen to this, they're always listening for are tips of how to get to where you are and other and other people are, uh, volunteer firefighting in the training you got there help you get that job down in North Carolina.

JJ: (03:47)
It did it, it, uh, I'll be honest with you. You know, they talk about in the fire service. One thing that I really despise and big reason why I became an instructor and we'll get to that too. But, um, I think if you've got some kind of background in the fire service on what we do as a volunteer, as well as career, there really is no difference except for one gets paid to do this job. And the other one trains. Sometimes the volunteers train harder than the paid guys, but fires, fire, bras, trucks, fire gear, everything. Same. Yeah. I mean

Stephen J: (04:21)
Volunteer. I, I met you probably back in 1994 per se. I think it was where, uh, when I was, I call playing fireman because when you do something for fun and you love to do it, uh, that's playful for me. And uh, but I do know that the training and the hours that go into it and the calls, the, the calls, there's no difference. There's no car accident says I, we can only be in an area with a paid fire department versus the volunteer fire department. The incidents are the exact same. The training's gotta be the exact same. Uh, and I I'm with you. I admire those guys and girls that are out there volunteer, paid. What have you that are still risking their lives, uh, to protect the civilians that they serve in their communities. To me, it's admirable, no matter what. So you, you went down and North Carolina became a firefighter and now you're a firefighter driver. What, what's the steps to, to that? Is it just driving the rigs more often? Is it a promotion?

JJ: (05:09)
Yeah. So everything's a promotional process Mo mostly in the fire department, you come in as a pro uh, probationary firefighter. You go through anywhere between a, if you're a lateral like we have here in our department, you can, uh, you can go through about four to six weeks, learn how to do things in our department. And or if you go to some of the other big career departments like mine too, and you have no fire skills, um, but you have background in volunteering. They're gonna put you through anything between the 22 and the 26 week academy and the then, you know, so you'll start as a firefighter. And then within two or three years, we have a, a marketing, most departments have it, you know, within two to four years, you can move up to an assistant driver or driver here. And then after four years of driver, you can test for captain everything's a promotional test. So I'm in a promotional promoted position as a driver. Uh, next year I can test for captain.

Stephen J: (06:08)
So there's a position called assistant driver.

JJ: (06:12)
Yeah. So assistant drivers are classified as either a master driver or a first class driver or what we call here in Durham, a relief driver.

Stephen J: (06:23)
Okay. You said assistant driver. I thought it was somebody like a assisted in driving. Like, Hey, hold the wheel for a second. Now I gotta answer my cell phone.

JJ: (06:31)
Well, it's it's so in my position I can ride as an acting captain. So if I get bumped over to ride the seat as a captain, then the assistant driver moves up to drive. That's what he mean by relief driver, assistant

Stephen J: (06:45)
Driver. Ah, gotcha. Gotcha. So you're down there, you're doing your thing. You become an instructor eventually. How long did it take you to become an instructor down in North Carolina?

JJ: (06:53)
Man, I got pushed into it by a guy named Wayne shard. Who's uh, was from orange county, New York. Um, he was a volunteer up there and he was on a job down here, a, uh, captain as a fire fire marshal. We work part-time together department called apex and he pushed me in 2006 to go get my instructor. And, uh, he told me, he says, you got a lot to offer your, you you've been around, you know, some things you should become an instructor. So in 2006, March 5th, I passed the state exam and became a, uh, North Carolina level two fire instructor. So there's level one, level two and level three. So I've been a level two since 2006.

Stephen J: (07:36)
That's awesome. Being able to take some of them knowledge you've learned in your, uh, well, it's almost 40 years of service now and, uh, bring that to the, the younger guys and throughout the country now you're, you've started fully involved training LLC. And I know that you have a couple specialties that company

JJ: (07:52)
In 2000, yeah. Started that company in 2011 and went through a, a, a fallen now with the know I, I left the, the fire service for about a year and a half and started my own fire training company with all my technical rescue training and everything. Um, I'm very blessed to get hooked up with the guy named Ron Moore. Who's a retired battalion chief from Syracuse, which I met Ron in 1984, Don extrication. And, um, he was able to help me get, uh, my, um, my teaching for alternative fuels, which includes, um, which includes, you know, hybrid electric vehicles, electric vehicles, and in the past, uh, four or five years, he's now made me, uh, eligible to teach compressed natural gas and, um, and, uh, you know, the, the alternative fuels with that. So I've been blessed to be able to do that on top of technical rescue training I do here.

Stephen J: (08:51)
So in your, your 40 years experience, there's gotta be a lot of memorable calls, good and bad. What's one that really sticks out to your, like where your training kicked in and you, you were able to really step it up and, and perform.

JJ: (09:03)
Uh it's it's funny, you asked that question. Uh, Debbie man, Frida he's, uh, she still lives a McKinsey New York area. She was in a bad wreck on route nine by the nine more. Um, we cut her out being that I've known her, you know, my whole junior high and high school, uh, after we extricated her, I jumped in the back of the ambulance and rode to the hospital and stayed with her the whole time. It's her parents and her sister got there. And, uh, when I went to her father's funeral two years ago, um, the mother and the sisters and Debbie showed up and they thanked me for that.

Stephen J: (09:42)
That's gotta be an amazing feeling.

JJ: (09:44)
Yeah.

Stephen J: (09:46)
Not, not often. You actually get to meet your, your, uh, your patients after the fact.

JJ: (09:50)
Right. Well know, being where we, you know, Riv coming from where we come from, we know everybody up there. So we respond to a lot of our friends. So that was pretty, that was pretty, uh, pretty cool through all these years to have walk up and hugging kiss you.

Stephen J: (10:05)
That that's amazing. So, so you're down there, you're doing your thing with the training. Um, now to me, when, when I go out and I train other guys, uh, every once in a while, somebody steps it up and really surprises you, uh, about how much they've captured, what you're, you're throwing out there. Give me gimme some examples of just that proud moment you've had, uh, being an instructor.

JJ: (10:28)
Oh God, there's, there's a bunch right now. Um, there's a fire department called meadow fire department and Johnson county where they have had me come back. So, and train through, through my company to teach the extrication part. Like they're really big on education, um, search and rescue the Rick stuff, you know, things to pick up. They really, I put a video out with the chief of west Johnson fire department in Johnson county on air bag stabilization on changing geometry and how to put an airbag underneath all these new vehicles that we have with, uh, rocker panel supports. So there's been numerous people walk up to me and tell me between, uh, artery and smoke, how to identify smoke and fire, and how to cut somebody out of a car, how to stabilize a B I've had numerous people call me. And, uh, another big one is the CPR. Uh, I'm a trainer trainer for, uh, not just North Carolina, but the 50 states on CPR. First aid. I've had people call me and tell me that the CPR that I've taught and helped save somebody else's life.

Stephen J: (11:37)
That's amazing. I mean, really, really just kudos to you for being out there in training, but what sets you apart from all the other firefighters and all the instructors that gets you the opportunity to go to other states and other fire departments and teach us, why are they calling you? What really do you think separates you?

JJ: (11:55)
Um, I, I've got a really great personality. Like you, you know, I've hung around.

Stephen J: (12:00)
Yeah. We're, we're on a zoom called Jay. You don't have to kiss my.

JJ: (12:03)
No, no brother believe me. Believe me. I, you know me, I'm gonna tell you the truth. I, I don't, I I'm a straight shooter, you know, I don't do that, but that's, that's the positive. I, I, you know, you still give that back to me. When I come up and visit with you, you know, we always try to make a time to see each other, and that tells you something. So pat Cal Mary, who was one of the dispatchers, found out what I was doing with the compress, natural gas, um, also Anthony marque, who used to be the chief of ack. He seen what I was doing with the execution, uh, west hall, who was the chief of roundabout at one point, um, they were all looking for something different, something new. I had something off for 'em. They knew who I was. I had a lot of respect from being up there for 27 years. And, uh, they took a gamble on me and brought me in and it really took off know the alternative fuel classes. Well, as the advance education classes. So that's put me on, um, you know, traveling through pat Cal Mary, again, set me up to goi twice.

Stephen J: (13:06)
So what you're telling me is that network is your net worth when it comes to those things, that network you've set up throughout your entire career. Yeah.

JJ: (13:11)
Yep.

Justin: (13:12)
What are, what are, uh, some of what, what are some of the unique challenges of the alternative fuel? Like a, an electric car, you mentioned natural gas. Uh, how does that play into things? You know, if you, if I'm, I'm a pedestrian, I'm riding down the street. I see someone crash in front of me. I call 9 1 1. Uh, I don't know you guys coming on, probably don't know right away. What, what the situation is, how does that play out?

JJ: (13:35)
So most of the dispatchers around the area now are supposed to be asking questions of what type of vehicles are involved. Is it, is it, uh, alternative vehicle? Is it, and a lot of people don't know, they don't know if it's an E EV or, or C and G. Um, the stuff we call that I teach a lot of people's had a called badging. So the rear of the vehicle will say electric vehicle or HEV, or would have a C G sticker on it. You know? So a lot of people aren't looking at that, but that's what the dispatchers, and that's what us as fire department, when we do our windshield size up, we're trying to identify the vehicle that are involved and are these vehicles alternative fuels because that changes the game, uh, when it comes to either execution of vehicles being on fire,

Justin: (14:26)
What's, what's a, like, what's a specific example of why, uh, uh, a Tesla in an accident would be different than a, a traditional gas

JJ: (14:34)
Vehicle. So a Tesla doesn't have a motor. The whole bottom part of the Tesla on every Tesla vehicle is the 400 volt battery that runs a vehicle. But on every Tesla, it has 440 inverter converter that on the older models, they sit on the passenger side a post. So when you're cutting with tools, you have a chance of cutting into that 440 inverter converter. And that will kill the firefighter instantaneously. So, oh wow. Yeah. Thousand 18 Tesla moved all the model inverter converters to the middle, between where we call the, um, firewall on most vehicles. So now they put 'em in there so that we, the fire, the first responders won't ever have to worry about touching those inverter converters.

Stephen J: (15:25)
Do you think that's from a direct, uh, response from the fire service and saying, Hey, yeah, you know, we're trying to rescue guys, and this is gonna kill us.

JJ: (15:33)
Yeah. Tesla, Tesla is one of the major manufacturers that, um, I have to tell people that when it comes to being fire safe, if the fire department feels that there's something that they could do better with their vehicles, they're gonna do it to make it safe, not just for the people buying the cars, but for the first is out there learning on how to operate with those vehicles. Uh, and those and those predicaments.

Stephen J: (15:58)
Yeah. I, would've never thought of that. I, would've never thought to say, don't, don't cut through the, a post cuz you might ate yourself when you're so focused on extricating someone and, and rescuing Samson's life.

JJ: (16:08)
Yeah. So that, that the only time you're cutting a post down low, like that is when you're doing a dash roll or dash Jack, those are, you know, and the other thing about the Tesla Justin, is that the Teslas don't have an engine. So the front area's called the Fring area. So that's an extra storage area, but that also has, uh, unique boron steel and a lot of these vehicles for when it does come to a cutting these vehicles. So that's another big one that a lot of the departments are learning. The reason why fire departments are having to change their extrication equipment around to be able to cut the Bo on steel, is that that's just a heavier duty metal. Yes, sir. It's, it's, it's like a metal that's wrapped seven different times and then reinforced. And so with that reinforcement, it's, it's protecting the occupant inside the vehicle so that our frontal or side impact the occupants are walking away from, and even a rollover, the occupants are pretty much walking away.

Stephen J: (17:06)
Wow. So what you're saying is the firewall is the boron protecting the people from the junk in the front.

JJ: (17:15)
So the Bo the Mor

Stephen J: (17:17)
I'm just making sure I'm paying attention to everything here. The Morron protects the front that has the junk.

JJ: (17:23)
So the, so the boron steel is all wrapped around the, a post and yes, it will protect the front and the junk and the trunk. Very,

Stephen J: (17:32)
Very, very nice. I love it. So you are dealing with, you know, we're dealing obviously electric vehicles, uh, the C G uh, the vehicles. Now a lot of buses I see that are, they're running off the gas, uh, what, what poses a issue with those now completely different than electric and gasoline vehicles.

JJ: (17:47)
So the great thing about with you guys up in New York state, New York Arlington school district, and now w school district is running, uh, L and G, which is, which is, you know, uh, propane. So the, this propane to me is safer than the C and G, which is compressed natural gas, which we run a lot of that here in the south. So propane is much safer. Um, when in and causing a wreck, uh, a lot of the fluids run back in the tank, the tanks will shear off. Um, they will, they will do a better protection than the compress, natural gas, the press natural gas takes about anywhere from 38 to 42 seconds to run back from the motor back into the tanks. Um, and then the tanks are different areas where your LNG tanks are, you know, they're located under the bus. A lot of people don't know it and they're not having to be placard.

JJ: (18:43)
So you run into what we call the NPA 7 0 4 placard, which a lot of these vehicles don't have, have to comply with that, but they do it just for the first responders, right? So it is a scary situation that you, you can theor rest, especially in a bad crash. You might not be able to make any of these identifications as you approach the, the scene. That is, that is correct. That's why part of teaching the alternative field class is, is, well, like I said, at there's we do five types of badging. Um, the thing with way we have it down here with waste industries, waste industries, badges the front of their trucks. They will give a, a number. And then after the number, it will have a letter saying C meaning compress, natural gas, or we'll have a letter D meaning diesel. So they have, they have taken it a step further. They badge the rear of their vehicles. They badge the side of the driver's, the driver's side, and they badge the front bumper.

Stephen J: (19:41)
I'm just throwing it out there. Isn't this something where the department of motor vehicle in any given state could maybe require that on the plate for first responders. So they could immediately identify this.

JJ: (19:50)
So I'll give you a, a little history on the, the partner of motor vehicles. So when we talk about ATVs electric hybrid electric or electric vehicles, um, back in the late nineties, early two thousands, when electric vehicles are starting to come out, Ron Moore and a bunch of people went to the motor industries and they wanted them to make the thick cable that we're not supposed to cut on HES and EVs to make a D O T orange and Volvo Mercedes BMWs argued that they're building cars for people, and that the people see that D O T orange under their hood that might deter them from wanting to buy the vehicle. So they allow the 'em to use white, blue, black, green, and D O T orange, and sometimes red as their high voltage lines so that it wouldn't deter somebody to not buy the vehicle. So no D O T will not help regulate that because the motor industry has more money than the D OT. Wow. So that's the part of why educating people, ons and EVs, and the CG is, is a big, is a big thing that has taken off with me in the last seven years. I've been teaching at, uh, pretty heavenly the, because we are under the impression that, um, we're, we're shape out here and we're really not.

Stephen J: (21:14)
Yeah. I mean, just in the mere fact that you said Tesla from one year to the other changed that and where, you know, that energy is located for the firefighters to know that is, is huge. What other quick tips could you give? Maybe the, the firefighters never had your class to keep him safe today. What would you give him?

JJ: (21:30)
So there's apps out there on his vehicles to locate. If the vehicle has a 12 volt system, 12 volt systems compared to the, you know, you know, where your batters located and which one to disconnect first, the negative or the positive. One thing I learned from chip Aero, working central Hudson, and you always DC, your AC power. So you always take off the negative before you take off the positive, and you always put the positive on before you put the negative on when recharging

Stephen J: (21:56)
Great tip. I hope, uh, somebody hears that and, uh, remembers that when they, they come up on an incident, it almost seems like the internet and, and the apps are essential part of your service now yes, sir, to be able to that instantaneous look up that cyclopedia in your fingertips, you know, just to come on a crash, if it was a Tesla, a Ford and a, a bus, I mean, you'd be dealing with three different types of vehicles, um, that you'd have to deal with. And each one would be very, very different and probably imagine, need different tools for each one, right? That is,

JJ: (22:26)
That is correct. And, and that's what, that's what you, you try to, you know, help equip the, the firefighters of yesterday and the firefighters of today, of the differences out there, you know, and, uh, I can tell you about three or four years ago, my captain I'm with now, I did a class just in a park, a lot on an ATV and the EV sitting out in, in the park a lot and five hours later, we on correct, what's happened to be an EV um, EVs are very silent. ATVs are very silent vehicles. You don't hear the motor running. Um, another big one that, uh, the Chevy vol did, uh, Chevy vol. If you release the hood, it has a generator motor, but if you release the hood, it automatically revs up the generator motor to let you know that the vehicle is on. Um, we talk about illumination and EVs, but how do we know the vehicles still, if we can, O' in the afternoon. Lot of people aren't looking to see if the is

Stephen J: (23:30)
Jay you 21 year old self. If you could talk to him and give him some advice or somebody that's 21 today who wants to be where you're at, what would you tell

JJ: (23:37)
Him? I would tell him to I open, you know, um, speak less, learn a lot, you know, be like a sponge and, and, and have a trade. You know, the, the one thing I'm learning with the fire service now is that a lot of people come into fire service, have a trade. You know, I had heavy equipment operator. So, you know, so I was a truck driver, a heavy equipment operator. So I had a trade when I came into the fire service.

Stephen J: (24:03)
And Jay, the one, one thing we ask everybody is how do you define a hero?

JJ: (24:07)
A hero hero is somebody who does something. It's almost like integrity. You, you do it because, you know, it's the right thing to do. And you don't look for the accolade afterwards. You, you do it because it it'll make a difference, not only in your life, but somebody else's life. Well,

Stephen J: (24:24)
Jay you're 40 plus years of experience in the fire service. Plus you're teaching. I think you're a hero. I appreciate what you've done and what you continue to do for not only your community down in North Carolina, but for the fire service throughout United States. And just giving those couple tips here today, you know, I, I know for a fact it's gonna make a difference somewhere. So thank you, my friend. I agree.

JJ: (24:45)
Thank you, my friend. Yeah. I'm gonna echo that. JJ. It's an honor meeting you. Thank you, Justin. I, I appreciate this, you know, I appreciate you guys, you know, doing what you're doing. Please let me listen to, you know, hook me up with all the other podcasts you're doing so I can follow them. Um, it's, it's all about the brotherhood and sisterhood and taking care of each other and making sure not just as fire, please and EMS, you know, the first responders, it's the first responder, meaning we're all a

Stephen J: (25:11)
Family, well said, my man stay safe and we'll talk to you soon.

JJ: (25:14)
God bless brothers,

Stephen J: (25:20)
Justin, the civilian producer, once again, a guy comes in and just astonishes me with his knowledge, his in enthusiasm, uh, what he had to share with us. Yeah.

Justin: (25:29)
I always think that, uh, I'm, I'm going to learn something about law enforcement or fire safety, but yet I learned these wild things that are so cool. Like the, the, the discussion of the Tesla funk. Yeah. I mean, it's just the, the boron steel and the fact we call it boron,

Stephen J: (25:45)


Justin: (25:46)
It? It's cool. It's really cool. And I, I appreciated, uh, hearing that from him, just

Stephen J: (25:50)
An amazing, uh, way that he can train and pass this knowledge along, uh, throughout the country. If anybody wants more information, uh, on JJ and about his business, you can visit fully involved training.com or give, call, give him a call, uh, 9 1 9 5 2 4 3 9 3 5. Uh, he is absolutely willing to go out, uh, and train, just give him a call, make out the arrangements, whatever his fee is, a hundred percent worth it, I think. Yeah. And

Justin: (26:17)
I, I think this episode really highlighted how important, just some very, very small tips can really be for the safety of people out there trying to help people in car

Stephen J: (26:25)
Accidents. Yeah. I, I had no idea that there's power in the AP of a Tesla pre 2018. Yeah. Crazy stuff. Wild. Once again. Thank you for listening to behind the tin and hearing about how our heroes are heroes. Not only with the badge on, but the badge off, if you like what you're hearing, please follow, like share, subscribe to us@behindtheten.com uh, follow us on Facebook, become one of our sponsors for cocktails over conversation. Keep Justin well hydrated. Yeah. And, and share with a friend. You

Justin: (26:52)
Know, if you, you're probably listening to this in your car, you're by yourself. But when you get home tonight, you're hanging out with your buddies. You're having some beers say, Hey, check out this new podcast. It's pretty good.

Stephen J: (27:00)
I hope that's what you think. Leave us some reviews if it is. Or even if it's not, we read every single review we take 'em to heart. We are open to criticism. If you know somebody that should be on our show, send us an email@behindthetimgmail.com. So guys, thank you. Once again, look out for each other and stay safe.