How a 9/11/01 story Started with a Hemet with FDNY Firefighter/PIO Gerry Sandford

Stephen J: (00:12)
Welcome to behind the ten.com a podcast that introduces you to the H men and women who wear the 10 while protecting our community and hearing about the extraordinary things. They, when they're badged in their locker, the good Lieutenant Steven J is here with the civilian producer, Justin what's happening. What's happen in my frame. We're doing all sorts of good stuff today. I'm so excited this, uh, this guy that we're gonna have on. And I don't wanna jump ahead of stuff, cuz we've got some sponsors dimension, but this guy is a legend. Yeah. Yeah. This was this. Uh, you shared with me the book that he wrote that he will be discussing in the podcast and it was absolutely phenomenal before we get ahead of ourselves. Let's thank today's cocktail over conversation sponsor. And that's mark C mark C from red hook, New York. Thank you so much listening, representing being a sponsor for the cocktails over conversation.

Stephen J: (01:01)
Once again, thank you to HDE park brewing company for giving us that nice blonde, a delicious Justin's favorite. I'm always so appreciative and thankful. Couple more sponsors. Those guys, print.com. Those guys print for all your custom apparel needs. Visit those guys. print.com. All right, what else we got here today? Justin I'm I'm you know, I got tabs in the book here because it was such an easy read. I read in like an afternoon. Right. And I was just blown away. You know, I had my experiences with nine 11, uh, obviously being in the Hudson valley, New York mm-hmm tragic for us more tragic, obviously down in the city. Uh, the views that I had were after the fact, you know, going down and, and helping with, with the food delivery, right. Uh, from the culinary. But this guy it's more than just him being there cuz he wasn't there when it really happened. You know, reading the book, he, he goes there after, but he's there just before and it's all because of a helmet, all because of a helmet, you know, in Florida, nonetheless, well helmet in Florida. Well, let's not ruin the story. Let's bring, let's bring on Jerry San.

Stephen J: (02:15)
Well, Jerry San, welcome to behind the 10 we're we're so pleased to have you here with myself. Stephen J the good Lieutenant and Justin, the civilian producer. Well, happy to be here

Gerry: (02:22)
Guys. Thank

Stephen J: (02:23)
You. We, we wanted to get the, the little bit of background. Uh, I know that you served in the, the Navy after getting outta high school, correct. And, and then you went and became a cop, but let's how'd you end up in the Navy. So my

Gerry: (02:35)
Last year of high school, I, we piled around a bunch of guys went in the Navy reserve. Like I said, the owner of the ball was a, uh, chief in the Navy. So, uh, I kind of went along with the boys and I joined the, uh, Navy. And uh, when I graduated in, uh, in 55, uh, from high school, I then went to work on wall street, but then November of 1956, I had to do my commitment to the Navy. So I went away for two years and I served on a radar picket ship up in Davisville. Rhode Island froze my off. It was terrible duty . Um, back in those days, you know, the Russians are coming, the Russians are coming. So what they did was they outfitted these old Liberty ships that they used during world war II. They put all kind of a sophisticated radar gear on them.

Gerry: (03:26)
And we went out and sailed up and down the east coast, uh, reporting every, uh, aircraft that left and came into the United States. So my, the highlight of my two years in the Navy was I went to Kingston, Jamaica once and to Gimo about four times. So that was my, but they fed us good. So, uh, I got out in 1958 and uh, shortly thereafter I got married and went, uh, back to work on wall street about 1964, my, a company hired a part-time firefighter. And at that time I had no idea being a firefighter or a police officer, but he kind of convinced me, why don't you take the civil service test, uh, to go on the job which I did. And I took the cops and I took the fire test and I, uh, I got hired marks on the cops and I was put on the list and I got, uh, called in, uh, 1965, June of 65. I left wall street and I went on the police department only a small

Stephen J: (04:30)
Pay cut. When you left wall street to become

Gerry: (04:32)
A police officer. Well, let me tell you, I'll tell you, uh, Steven, it was, I was making blood money on, on wall work, all kinds of crazy overtime. In fact, uh, we had a child, we had Glen who was a little boy and had a brand new house. I was making about $12,000 a year on the street, which that was big money. And I took a Payco ready for this $7,032. Cut it right in half that's what a New York city police officer has started with in 1965, holy smokes. So we ate a lot of hamburgers. I looked out at the backyard at the dirt for a long time before we ever even could put grass in, but we survived. And, uh, I was assigned to the seventh precinct on the lower east side of New York. And you talk about a culture shot here. I am an Irish, Irish, white kid from Staten island, and I get assigned to an all Jewish Puerto Rican precinct.

Gerry: (05:27)
So, uh, you talk about a culture shock, you know, and, uh, so I was there for, uh, almost three years. I spent my last, uh, nine months on Staten island in a operation. They called a new program called operation one, uh, one man. They put us, uh, precinct in Queens and the one 20 on Staten island. And they put all us rookies, uh, in a radio car, uh, by ourselves. And that was the experiment that they started. So I lasted, I got called finally, uh, good Lord came through and called me for the fire department. So I switched over in 1968 and, uh, went out to the rock, went through the 10 or 12 weeks in the summer of 68 and, uh, graduated and was assigned ladder 23 in, uh, uh, just, I was at my assignment was ladder 23. So don't be kid like I was .

Gerry: (06:25)
Uh, but at that time I was, uh, I was 30 years old and that's old. I mean, if you guys know how it works, you usually get on the job and you're 21. Yep. I didn't go on the police depart until I was 26. So, uh, anyway, getting back to ladder 23, I look at my assignment. I said, that's not bad, 23rd street in Manhattan. So the instructors start laughing their off and they said, Hey kid, you know where you're going? You're going to Harlem, Harlem. Yep. I Harlem the hell is Harlem. I said's another world. Oh sure. I went to ladder 23, engine eighty, a hundred fifty, a hundred thirty ninth street in Amsterdam avenue, right across the street from CC Y well, I'll tell you what, that was the greatest, uh, assignment going there as a probie. And, uh, I was the first probie in ladder 23 in eight years. So you were

Stephen J: (07:17)
Treated Oak open arms. They, they welcomed you I'm

Gerry: (07:20)
Sure. Oh my God. Yeah. Go to the store. you know, the usual peel of potato, you know, you know, but they tried to break my chop. So I was like, wait a minute, I'm an ex cop stop. You know, you know, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna put up with your, you guys, but I tell you what I worked with some fun, uh, best, uh, white, black guys I worked with up there. It didn't matter. It didn't matter the color we had. I was trained and learned under some great, great men, uh, in ladder of 23. And I stayed there, I guess until about 19 73, 74, uh, I then transferred because of a hardship. My wife was, I was having some medical problems with my wife. So then I transferred from Harlem to ladder 1 31 in red hook, Brooklyn, which was another great place.

Gerry: (08:13)
Uh, a lot of old timers there, um, learned a lot more of the job. I mean, they thought I was, they thought was a big deal. Cause I came from Harlem from ladder 23, you know, but that was like an inside joke, but, uh, I stayed there and, uh, I was studying and I, I got to meet, uh, the brother of the fireman that taught me to taught me into taking all the tests. His name was Don Ruland and, uh, he was a captain all four engine and he got promoted to battalion chief. And as you know, battalion chief needed an aide. So Donald called me and said, Hey, uh, why don't you, uh, why don't you come and drive me? I've been assigned to the four, eight battalion. So I left 1 31 after a number of years and, uh, went up and drove, start driving, uh, chief Don rule in the four, eight battalion. And that took on a whole different, uh, way of looking at the job, you know? Yeah.

Stephen J: (09:09)
It's behind the scenes look right. You seeing it's a behind the scenes kind of

Gerry: (09:13)
Look, yes, yes. You'd pull Lynn that the rigs would be there. The men would be stretching the lines and the, the, the ladders would go up and you would get the information and, uh, help the chief with the, what was going on. And then, uh, reported everything, did all the fire reports. So we then moved, uh, from the four, eight Forta and he transferred to Staten island. We where I lived. So I went with him and we stayed for about a year and a half on Staten island. And then he got promoted to deputy chief and of course, newly promoted deputy chiefs. Most of them went to headquarters. Yep. So I reluctantly left Staten island, which it was quiet. It was like a camp, you know, I, uh, you know, I, I liked to go to jobs and, and have fun. And, uh, anyway, we, I wound up in fire headquarters and shortly thereafter, uh, Don went on medical leave and there I was, uh, I would take his car and drive by myself every day up the headquarters, uh, at the time was at, uh, two 50 Livingston street.

Gerry: (10:16)
And I got involved with a lot of projects. Charlie Rivera was the fire commissioner at the time. And bill Fien was the, uh, first deputy fire commissioner. And then one day, uh, Lieutenant walked by from the press office and said to me, uh, we have an opening in the press office. I said, what are you crazy? You know, you mentioned, first of all, nobody wanted to go to headquarters. That that's number one, it's like going to one, uh, police Plaza. I mean, who wants to go down there? You know, there there's too many bosses, too much crap going on . So I thought about it for about a week and a half. And, uh, the worst thing Maria said to me, uh, my wife, what's the worst thing you can happen. They send you back to a firehouse. So I then went in and talked to, uh, chief, be who I had known.

Gerry: (11:02)
He was a battalion chief in the three one, uh, when I was in the four, eight, anyway, uh, the, he said to me, come on to fix this in. He said, by this time I had about 20 years in the job. And, uh, Charlie Rivera came in, commissioner says, Jerry, you know, we know about you, you know, the job, we're looking for somebody, uh, with, uh, that knows the city. So I, uh, he said, you got any dress clothes? I said, yeah, he's well, this is the last time you're gonna be in a uniform. So a couple of days. So I wound up in the press office and, uh, had a secretary and, uh, Martinez the Lieutenant. He, he got Shanghai out to the Bronx. I don't know what happened, but he left and there I was running the, uh, the press office. And, uh, uh, it was a great job. I, I took on a whole new, um, way of, of, of, of dealing with the, with the fires.

Stephen J: (11:57)
You know, now, Jerry, when you first started as a firefighter, you didn't even know the press office existed. No. Or a firefighter would be a sign there, right. Without question without, so that, that's what always interests me is when people end up in jobs, they didn't even, you know, expect to, to get to, but the happy stance and the, the path that you took led you there.

Gerry: (12:17)
Steve, I have, I, no idea. I, sometimes I have to say, what the heck, how did I get here? you know, I went from an a, chief's a, I mean, a firefighter and two truck companies to a chief's a, to the press office. I mean, it's you talk about a, a, a run. Yeah. Uh, anyway, I, uh, I really, uh, uh, learned it learned more. And then one day this man walks in and, uh, I says, I know who you are. You're you're mayor CA's, uh, bodyguard. He says, I'm not freaking CA's body. God, I'm his press secretary. I said, the whole is your name. He says, I'm Tom Kelly. Oh, Tom Kelly. Oh, okay. I heard about you. He says, Sam. He says, it's gonna be the Tom and Jerry show. He was the deputy commissioner for public information. So he was my boss.

Gerry: (13:07)
Wow. Joey said, tell you what kid he's calling me kid. Meanwhile, I'm older than him. he says to me, uh, uh, I know from Shinola about the fire, the fire department. I know the red, the fire engines are red. What do you know about being a reporter? I said nothing. He's okay. We're gonna make a great team. I'm gonna teach you how to be reporter. You teach me how to run the, how to be a, uh, a take care of the, uh, fire department. And that's how we did it. We did the Tom and show, and it was remarkable. The camaraderie, we both lived on Staten island as it turned out. And he taught me how to respect and to be a reporter, you know, let 'em in, let 'em get their shot. They'll do do their B roll and they'll have enough to go on the broadcast, whether it be six, nine or 11 o'clock at night.

Gerry: (13:55)
And, uh, I taught him all about the fire department, ladders, hydrants, you know, all that kind of stuff. And, uh, we made a great team. Uh, he of course would noted it. I mean, he was press, he was the press secretary to Meko. So we'd walk into the hall, you know, that's what you called it. Not city hall. You could walked into the hall, forget about the metal detectors running aircraft. You know, the Tom and Jerry's, we just walked right in. Like, it was like we owned the place and literally Kelly did. And, uh, I got great tutorage and learned, uh, to respect, uh, media and how it worked. In fact, when I retired and came down here and went to work for the north at Naples fire department, I taught a media course all throughout the state of Florida, the firefighters to teach 'em how to, you know, let the, let them, let the media get in, you know, clear a place for them, give them their shot, give 'em a, a quick interview, whether you or the chief talks to them and they're outta your way. So, uh, I taught thousands of firefighters. I hope to this day, they're still using some of my advice. Uh, but I taught it from the street. What I learned, what Tom Kelly taught me. I passed it on to the firefighters down here. Well, you

Stephen J: (15:08)
Had such a unique perspective. I, I mean, not many PIOs start in the trenches. Usually there's some kid that came out of a media class that get hired specifically for that job. They're not necessarily a guy that came up through the firehouse. I mean, to be the chiefs aid alone is a job that's sought after in the firehouse, you know, that, that right there. And then to, to be able to progress to the PIO of the biggest fire department in the world, you know, and then to go to Florida and of course people are gonna come to you because you have that knowledge and that interest, uh, that they're looking for. So kudos to you for taking that and actually doing those classes, cuz yeah, I'm sure there's still people down there that are listening to the advice that you gave them.

Gerry: (15:46)
Yes, yes, Steve. So it was a, a great run. Um, and then, uh, I retired and uh, uh, Tom Kelly left and he became the, uh, commissioner of, uh, uh, corrections and then, uh, uh, excuse me, the D DPI for corrections. And then he went over to the PD and he was a DPI, I think under Ray Kelly. I'm not sure which commissioner, which, uh, uh, police commissioner, uh, Tom was under. And then we kind of separate our ways. And, uh, I retired in 1997 and uh, my son had a home inspection business in New Jersey and he said, pops, uh, you know, why don't you come to work for me? But what kind of drove me out of the, or not drove me out? That's not the, uh, why I retired was we, we merged with EMS. Okay. And EMS came in, uh, like a herd, you know, uh, it got to the point where I thought that, uh, they took us over, you know, uh, I mean, there were nice, there were kids.

Gerry: (16:52)
I mean, yeah, but I had, I had been doing this, you know, I went down hallways. I stretched lot. I mean, I, you know, I was in the job. And, uh, so anyway with that, I had kind of left me with a bad taste in my mouth. So when my son David said pops, uh, by that time I think I had 29 and a half years in the job. So I retired anyway. Uh, I come down here in 2000 and, uh, I'm here five months driving my wife nuts. put the, no, the dishes go this way in the dishwasher. You gotta do. 'em south the north to eat. She's saying, get the F out. You know? So , so I, I see an, uh, an article in the Naples daily news that they're having a refresher CPR course at Naples high school. I said, see, I'm going down to somebody go down to high school.

Gerry: (17:46)
And they load up all us old people. And they put us in an auditorium. This woman gets up on the stage and he says, I'm chief Diane flag, blah, blah, blah. We're gonna teach him the Reese mouth to mouth, the chest chest compressions. Okay, fine. I said, lady, I'm gonna ask you for a job. You have no idea. so, so the two hours is over. I walk on to, and I still had my business card, which was pretty impressive guys. I mean, it's Jerry Samford, press secretary. I mean, not too many people walking around that's for sure. You know? So, uh, anyhow, uh, she said, I have somebody that does the media. I said, now you have too. I said, he's not like me. I'm from New York. You she's looking at me like, what's called unis. You got pal. You know, you're telling me, uh, I'm

Stephen J: (18:33)
From New York. That's what I got from New York. That's that's

Gerry: (18:35)
Right. so, uh, okay. The following Monday, I go out, play golf, come back. Maria says, well, grandpa, a chief, your score from a fire department down here. And he wants you to come in tomorrow. I said, really? She says, yeah. I said, where's is north Naples. I said, north Naples, where the hell is that? I thought it was guys. I thought it was one department. You know, what did I know? You know? Well, there's like at the time was like 12, 11, 12 different fire districts or five thems. Everybody had

Stephen J: (19:02)
Sounds like H park. Yeah. That's like upstate New York. Oh

Gerry: (19:06)
Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, I go in the follow, uh, Tuesday, my Madison avenue, white shirt, red five or tie blue suit. Like I was with Rudy, you know, like I was, uh, and everybody's looking at me like I'm nuts. The chief is looking at me. He takes my resume, throws it on the end of the end of his desk. And he says, Hey, you wanna listen to Brooklyn CEO? I said, Brooklyn, CEO, what are you buff? Oh yeah. You sound like you're from Massa. What the hell are you doing here? You're from Massachusetts. What are you doing here? Naples? He says, oh, a friend of mine is one of the fire commissioners. He told me there was an opening, blah, blah, blah. So SU so he re he relocates from wor Massachusetts. So now the chief of the Aprils fire department is from Massachusetts. He's not a redneck.

Gerry: (19:55)
And that's a big, big difference. because there is no, I'll say enough. There's no Southern chief would ever hire a new Yorker, a Yankee chief, because they was still fighting the war down here. If you got my, so I get hired by Jim from a Massachusetts native firefighter. And as, uh, 15 minutes, 20 minutes into the interview, he says, see that crown Victoria out in the parking lot. I says, yeah, he says, that's your car? I said, what do you mean my car? He says, you want the job? I says, yeah. I said, but don't you have to go above don't you have all kinds of, he's like this with a scholar. I'm the chief. There you go. You want the job? I says, yeah, he's okay. I mean, I'm thinking, you know, all the different layers of assistant this blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Gerry: (20:44)
So anyway, I started on May 15th, 2000 as their public information officer. And uh, about a month into my employment here, he said to me, we have a New York city fire helmet here. I said, wait a minute, how did you get a helmet from New York city? He says, well, a, um, a lives in Pelican bay. It's a real upscale high rise community here in Naples. And he walked in one day. It was his father's helmet. He didn't want it anymore. So I thought that was kind of strange that a man would give away his father's helmet. Okay, well, let's take a rise. And we write over the latter 44 and narrow it up on the wall. It's his fire helmet. And I see that 42 in the front, in fact that's name in our book. I said, Jesus, that's, that's some 42 truck. He says, you know it. I said, sure, I know it. I said, that's vs. And my old, the fire commissioner that his old firehouse, I said 73 engine 42 truck. I said, holy. So I, we go a phone. I call headquarters. I get Vanessa on the phone. He was my boss right away. He's abusing me. Who would, who would hire you a piece of. We just got rid of you back

Stephen J: (22:00)
To you. Haven't seen him in two days. Right? Perfect.

Gerry: (22:02)
No typical cops and fire. You know, you know how that worked? I said, Tommy. I said, uh, it's crazy. I tell him the story. He said, uh, why don't you bring the helmet back? I said, I'll bring it back. He said, but there's one. The house is being renovated. Now. Now this is July of 2000. Okay. So the year almost goes by and in August, Frank, excuse me, Frank rib, who took my place as the press secretary, he calls me and says, Jerry, you better make your plans, uh, where the house is almost done. Uh, mayor Giuliani, all the officials will be there and they're going to cut the ribbon on September 10th. Okay. September 10th. What the hell did I that's another day. So watch it. So we flew up to New York with the helmet on September 8th. I took him to Harlem. We went to 23 truck ladder, 1 31.

Gerry: (22:57)
I took him to Brooklyn co they could fire dispatches and all, I never even thought about going to the trade center. Why would I, why would I take 'em down there? So on September the eighth, we, uh, excuse me, September 10th, the day before nine 11, we go to 42 truck and there's hundreds of retired firefighters came back for the re recommissioning of the firehouse on the apparatus floor. They built an author because my dear friend, one of our Catholic chaplains, Michael judge was going to say mass, who at the time, would've known that this was the last mass that he, that he said. And I was in, in, in, I was there. So father judge said mass. Uh, we, we gave the helmet back to the captain of 42. We cut the ribbon with the mayor and, uh, finished the ceremony. We all went next door to Dominican Republic club. And we had the usual cold cuts and beer and stuff. And we all sat around. And, uh, uh, I guess it was about three o'clock in the afternoon. We said our goodbyes father, judge hugged me and bless me,

Stephen J: (24:20)
Powerful stuff, Jerry powerful stuff, man.

Gerry: (24:22)
Uh, I'm sorry, just gimme a minute.

Stephen J: (24:24)
No, no, we get it. And, uh, for those who are listening and may, may not recognize the name. Michael judge used the, the, the Catholic priest that, uh, during nine 11 during the attacks was there at the world trade center and perished, um, there, and there's a, a very iconic photo of him being carried out by the men and women of F, D N Y. Right. Um, and God, God bless him and God rest his soul. Uh, and I'm sorry for your loss, cuz no,

Gerry: (24:50)
It was, it was a, it was a tough, uh, so I say goodbye to those guys. And about eight of them were dead the next day, including for the judge. So we leave, we go to LaGuardia airport, we check our bags and as a, of four of us and I, I was the only one with the phone. So it starts to rain. And a lot of people don't remember what happened the night before September 11th. But I do cause I was stuck. I was in LaGuardia and we're looking up at the board where it says delayed, delayed, delayed, all these flights. We kept looking and it's raining now. It's almost raining sidewards and thinking, holy, it's how we, and now we see canceled. So we go up to the counter and uh, the attendance says, okay, uh, you, this is where, uh, when USA was still around, uh, you confirmed, uh, to leave, uh, six something in the morning, uh, September, uh, you have to change planes in Pittsburgh.

Gerry: (25:50)
Okay. So I called my daughter, Jeanie, who lived in, uh, Westchester, uh, her husband, my son-in-law came down, picked us up. We drove to their house. We laid down, had a bite to eat and we got up about four 30 in the morning and Michael took us back to LaGuardia and uh, we get on a plane and uh, we ironically boys, we, we, we fly right down the east river. You know, I, I don't know. I'm looking out the window. I'm showing these Florida guys, Hey, look, that's the Chrysler building. You know how they are? There's the UN and by a state building, oh, there's the trend towers. Yep. Statue, Liberty. We fly right over to Staten island. My, the, the, the big garbage dump and you know, uh, and now we, now we land in Pittsburgh. So we're changing planes. Now it's about quarter to nine.

Gerry: (26:49)
So Wayne Jones, one of the chiefs with me, he goes down to the head, the other chief and George Koons, who gave us the helmet. They get on a, they get on a plane. And back in those days, the pilots standing outside with the attendance and nobody's BSing out there and I'm just standing there. And, uh, I hear Wayne Jones screaming. My name from down the corridor in, in, in the, in the terminal, Jerry, Jerry, how are you up? Come down here. And, uh, I walk down, I'm thinking, why is he screaming? And he's in a restaurant outside and he looks up and I look up and there, there, I see, uh, the tower on the first tower on, on fire. Yeah. And I, and I, I know immediately that my brothers are going in and going up and then I'm like, holy, what the hell is going on?

Gerry: (27:49)
And I, I actually thought it was a, a, a, a sight seeing plane. I really did. My initial thought was, that's what it was. So we go back and now the pilot sees me, I am white as a ghost. And he says, you all right? I said, no, a plane just ran into a plane. Some plane ran into the world trade center. So we, I stumble on the plane I get on. Now I'm telling the people around that are sitting near me, including Tobin and George and the pilot comes on. He says something over the speaker who we're getting outta here, a mishap, something like that in New York. And he battles out, you know, everybody locks everything down, all the doors and. And we back out from here to, oh God, I don't know, a thousand feet or something. It wasn't far. He stops the plane.

Gerry: (28:41)
He comes on again and says, uh, you FAA has just grounded off all commercial airline flights in the United States. And we're looking at each other, like what, what what's going on? So we get off the plane and in Pittsburgh airport to total pandemonium. Yeah. Never saw anything like it in my life. People running, screaming, Steve, like, what the hell going on? So we, uh, I said, you know, I'm, I'm, I don't know what's going on. I'm not staying in Pittsburgh. I'm getting the hell outta here. I said, I wanna go back to New York. I'm thinking, how the hell am I gonna get to New York? I'm in Pittsburgh. So we let's, we better rent a, so we all go on a different line. Avis hurts. I don't even, I don't even remember what it was. We got a car finally, but this took a long time. Sure. A long time, you just didn't. I mean, there was everybody wanted a car by me. Everybody was

Stephen J: (29:41)
Looking to get a car. It

Gerry: (29:42)
Was, it was chaos. I mean, everybody was dumped all these planes now there's people. So, uh, we get a car and we leave the airport and Wayne says, we gotta get a charger. Uh, we gotta get a charger and we gotta get a map. Cause we're in Pittsburgh. So we stop all or some plow. I don't know. He runs in and gets a charger for my phone. And now we put the radio on and now we're here. That a second plane has hit a second tower. Cause don't forget. Now we've been out of it in the, in the airport waiting to get a car. And then we're here that, uh, the Pentagon was, I mean, this is all had, had already happened. Right. We're just catching up. Well,

Stephen J: (30:27)
People don't remember, you know, we've got a lot of young people that listen to this podcast. People don't remember there weren't smart phones yet. There wasn't this instant information in your pocket. Yet you had a phone. If you were lucky, like you had one, I had one then, and it was a phone call. That phone did, was make a phone call. So the information wasn't widely, uh, spread like it is today. Right? Right. Unless you were in front of the TV and there was a tremendous amount of misinformation at the time. Oh yeah. It was chaos. A lot of uncertainty, there was a, a lack of clarity as to what happened, what was happening. Uh, I remember being in my car in the morning and hearing their were seven or eight or nine planes that had been hijacked and that, you know, the white house was all sorts of crazy stuff that was being reported, uh, on the news at that time. And there, there, it was just, it was chaos. It was a chaotic day.

Gerry: (31:17)
It was, it was so, so now we have the radio on, we find out Shanksville and, and I remember wave saying, Jesus Christ, shank. Let's right near us. We're in Pittsburgh. So I said, we gotta stop. Oh, then we're writing. And the reporter on the radio says, oh my God, the tower collapsed. Now I am really, cause I saw them being built when I was going to 23 truck and Harlem, I'm thinking they could good. How could a, how could those towers, how could a tower come down? Well guess what? Then the second one comes down. We're we're listening to this in the car. I said, oh, we, we gotta, we, we gotta find a place. So we're on some turnpike someplace out of Pittsburgh and we rush in and that's when we saw that terrible scene. Yeah. Of that cloud, the cloud. Yeah. You're gone. How to hell in 200 and something stories, buildings begun.

Gerry: (32:15)
Now we go outside and I had the phone and I, I see, I, I gotta make a call. So I call fire headquarters. How I ever got through is a miracle. I don't know. I get, I get fire headquarters and I get one of the secretaries on the phone. I think it was Lisa and she's crying hysterically, passing the phone around screaming. They were all dead. Jerry. They're all gone. I mean, I. I'm just with them just with 'em the day before, you know, all the, all the chiefs fi Pete GCI, chief of department, Michael judge, all, anyway, we drive all night. We get back here on Wednesday day. The attack happened on Tuesday. Yep. Uh, this is Wednesday. Uh, go back to work on Thursday. I said to Tobin the chief, uh, I, I gotta go to New York. I, I don't care about my job here.

Gerry: (33:11)
I'm going back. And prior to all of this, uh, Maria and I had bought tickets to a fly on, I think it was Friday, uh, to attend our grandson's, uh, um, baptism in, uh, in Philadelphia. So we flew from, uh, Fort Myers to Philly on USA. I would about eight people on a plane. There was nobody. You remember everybody? Oh, FAA and was scared. Everybody was looking at everybody, you know? And, uh, so we got up there and uh, with Chris and Jack on Sunday and that afternoon, I, uh, somehow I reached Vasan at headquarters and I said, Tommy, I'm, uh, I'm in Philly and I want to come back. He said, please come back. So, uh, Monday I borrowed a, a, a relative's car in Jersey and I drove back up and I stopped on the garden state Parkway.

Gerry: (34:14)
Cause I wanted to see my son, my oldest son, because I had no idea. I didn't know what was happening, New York. Yeah. You know? And, uh, I just wanted to hold Glen. And, uh, I stayed there for a while and then, uh, drove up to New York and, uh, going over the bridge, looking at that scene with that cloud still there. Yep. I mean, this, this was, uh, this was six days later. Yeah. This was the Monday following the Tuesday attack. So that night, uh, a fireman that worked for me in a press office, Paul Nu, he drove me over to ground zero and there I was standing on Monday night on west street, some 50 feet, the air, it was unreal. It was crazy. I couldn't, I, I, I thought it was a movie set. I thought this was over in Europe. I mean, this happened over there.

Gerry: (35:11)
It didn't happen here. Yeah. How could it happen in my city? Anyway, uh, that night I wound up, uh, uh, back in the press office on my old couch. And then, uh, the next day they said, uh, Vanessa said, we want you to go back and work with Rudy and his press people. So I, I did that, uh, on pier, uh, 92 when the Hudson river, uh, with mayor Giuliani and we did, uh, news conferences every two hours. And, uh, and then, uh, uh, okay, so I'm there and I'm thinking, when, how am I gonna sleep Jesus. Uh, by that time I had picked up, uh, I had a, a rolling little cart that my daughter gave me, had plastic bags. They had given me toothpaste and all that stuff and a pair of boots. And I looked like a, I looked like crap. I had no change of clothes really.

Gerry: (36:06)
And then, uh, I was working that whole day on the pier and I kid that worked for me, cookie Frank McCarton was supposed to get me, uh, play used to sleep that night. Well, just then the, the hospital ship SS hope came up from Baltimore. In fact, president Trump just used it last year for the COVID COVID. Yep. And, uh, so by that, by six o'clock at night and everybody's gone there, I am still on the PI. I said, well, I, I guess I gotta take my sorry, on the ship. So there I was back on the, on a ship in a bunk that I hadn't been in since 1958 with somebody's, about four inches above my head, you know? And, uh, but that's what you did. It was cops. It was fine. And it was troopers. It was, you know, you just did anything, just the, you know, so I stayed there that night.

Gerry: (36:59)
And then the next day I was back on the pier and cookie came by and, uh, he said, and, and with him were two big, huge New York state troopers. And he said, uh, commissioner, I says about time he got that. Right. I said, you know, I've been up here for a couple of days. and you know, uh, so I'm laughing in these two big troopers with the big hats. Oh yeah. So, uh, cookie says, they're taking you to the Waldorf tonight. I says, oh, it's about God. It's about time. You took care of me. So, uh, off he goes, and there I am with these two troopers. Now this is, you know, in, in tragedies, there's always, some humor has to, you know, so we leave there. And by this time I'm pulling all these bags and crap, and we go down to this big car with all these arrows sticking out of the trunk and they go off with lights and sirens.

Gerry: (37:52)
And I finally kept pull over, pull over, put I said, listen, stop this commissioner. I'm not a commissioner. I'm Jerry San. But I came back. I volunteered from, from Florida. I said, you gotta go to Macy's. I said, I gotta get underwear. So they're looking at me, they turn around. They're like, what? I gotta get underwear, man, what am I gonna do? I feel like, uh, so we go to, we go to, we go to Macy's now I got another plastic bag. So now I got about seven plastic bags on my arms. I'm pulling this cart with the, and I and boots. So we go to the Waldorf and of course the Waldorf mm-hmm

Stephen J: (38:28)
hotel in New York,

Gerry: (38:32)
Every entrance is closed. I have one entrance with a, with a metal detector and I look like crap. I'm on this side with all my stuff. And on the other side is a guy with a pair and he is looking at me like, uh, you know, deliveries usually go around the rear, you know, but, uh, we'll put up with, and, uh, he's who are you as I'm Jerry Sanford? I said from the New York city fire department. He's okay. Mr. Sanford, come on in. You're on, you're on the, so I go in, and I'm now all these beautiful, uh, stairs that movie stars and Queens and Kings, and everybody have climbed these years. And here comes Jerry with his bag of bags. I'm a halfway up. And, uh, my underwear comes out of the plastic bag for Macy's and slides all the way down his stairs. You know, like I say, like I said, there's humor, there's humor and tragedy, but, uh, I stayed up there.

Gerry: (39:30)
Uh, they treated me incredibly well. Uh, I come back on the, I, I came back to Florida on a couple of weekends, probably, uh, two weeks in between I had to get dressed closed because I went from being on the PI with the mayor to going with Funes. And we were going to constant. You know, I don't have to tell you how many funerals, how many wakes, how many guys we bear over and every day, every day. And, uh, so, uh, I stayed up there till, uh, probably the middle of October and, uh, then came back to Naples. I had, uh, uh, I, I couldn't do it anymore. I, I couldn't go to more funerals the guys of the 343 and must have worked or known about half of them. Uh, so it, it got to be, uh, it got to be real down after a while I said, I gotta get back.

Gerry: (40:25)
So I came back here to Naples and, uh, just to skip ahead to, uh, back in January, uh, my lady, Chris, who you've seen, uh, who I knew, uh, we're together, six and a half years, she had been recording my stories, uh, on her phone secretly not knowing, not letting me know. And then in January she said, you know, uh, you've told me all your stories and how you think you should write a book, but I've been writing things down. Anyway, she, uh, wrote 12. Um, and the name of the book, it's, it started with a helmet.

Stephen J: (41:04)
I was fortunate enough to get that copy, Jerry, that you sent me and what a great read, what a great read. And I appreciate you guys sending it up. And man, uh, I'm not a guy that reads a lot of books if it's not for work or, or something else, just cuz of the time I sat down. And I think I read that book in an afternoon. Uh, and man, your story is just captivating. Um, thank you. How everything happened, you know? Um, I'm my condolences for, for your first wife. Um, yeah. And fight in the fight. Uh, I'm glad that you pulled through your fight and for those who, who haven't read the book and hopefully they will, uh, uh, spoiler alert. You had your own battles, uh, after nine 11. Um,

Gerry: (41:44)
I did with that big, thank you, Steve. It's been, uh, yeah. Uh, so, uh, after 20 years, uh, we, we wrote, she wrote the book, she wrote my stories, 12,000 words and put it in, it, started with the helmet and uh, it's amazing. I mean, people have asked me, you know, what, what, I don't know that I I'm, I'm a real, not a ultra religious guy, but I mean something the good Lord I retired, I go back, I can I'm down here. I unretire, I go to this CPR course, find out about this job, find out about this helmet and take it back on September 10th. I mean, you know, and I'm with those people with father judge with, with the chiefs and then, um, the hits the fan and everyth the whole world changes the next day, you know, September 11th. It's just, well,

Stephen J: (42:39)
I, I believe in God and I believe he has mysterious ways of working and putting you up there on September 10th and putting you back with Tom vanes and when he needed you most and putting you in Giuliani's office, those things all happened for a reason because, you know, we can tell from your personality and reading your book and your words that you're a calming presence. You know, you, you, you have that humor about you. And like you said, in tragedy, there's humor and people need that. You know, I'll never forget Giuliani going on Saturday night live after nine 11. And the big question was, is it okay to laugh now? And what was his response, if you remember why start now with Saturday night live and that got the chuckle. And then he said, it's, it's okay to laugh now. Um, you know, I also believe in, in the, the, the, the great beyond and their connection with us and quite frankly, one of your friends that perished that day is the one that knocked your, your underwear outta your bag, probably to get a rise outta you. Yeah.

Gerry: (43:33)
yeah.

Stephen J: (43:35)
So whoever had the biggest sense of humor is the guy that was messing with you most just to let you know, Hey it's okay.

Gerry: (43:42)
Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah. It just, uh, I've had a great run, you know, I'm 83 years old and I do it all again in a New York minute. In fact, in August, we went back to 27 to, to 42 truck cuz I wanted to see that helmet. It was 20 years. So I, wow. I called up there and uh, I spoke to the spoke Toyman and his name is, uh, scooter Reto of all people. No kidding. That's his name? and I hate the Yankees of all of all. I said, what's your name? He says my name scooter. I said, that's perfect. Perfect. You're in 42 truck. He's a show for a 42 truck. But anyway, he made it happen. Chris and I flew to New York and we went up to the south Bronx. We went to 42 and uh, a number of the retired guys came back to meet to see me, you know, and we made a, a CBS, we had coverage, New York one and uh, Bronx channel 12.

Gerry: (44:39)
So we, we got a lot of coverage about me. We, we going back to see the helmet, you know, it was 20 years, you know, uh, this September 11th, uh, and there it is. It's proudly displayed in the quarters of latter 42. And uh, I made, you know, reconnected with these guys and uh, but you know the brotherhood, I don't have to tell you guys, you know how it is. It's remarkable. It's a remarkable story. It just goes, uh, in fact, Chris said to me, when we were almost at the end of her finishing the book, she said, do you have a picture of the, of the helmet? I said, no, I don't have a picture. I said, wait a minute. I get my phone. She says, what are you doing? I said, I'm calling a firehouse, said, you're gonna call a firehouse. Of course, why wouldn't I call a firehouse?

Gerry: (45:22)
That's right. I call 42 truck. I mean, it's like, I just did it yesterday. That's right. You know, I, the fireman answers the phone. So and so, uh, a lot of energy 70, I saw put the officer in the truck on think it's on the phone. It's a captain. Hey cap, I'm Jerry Sanford. You don't know me, blah, blah, blah. I'm the guy with the helmet. Holy, holy, Deb helmet, what do you need? Blah, blah, blah, what do you need? I said, I need a picture of helmet. He said, gimme 20 minutes. Next thing know 20 minutes. I get eight pictures on, on my phone. That's the brother I said to Chris, this is, this is how you can call. I don't care where you are in the world where you are in. You say the magic words, you're on the, I could mm-hmm I'm sorry.

Stephen J: (46:02)
Forgive. No, it's it's for sure. And it's for life. Uh, every guest that we've been able to have on this podcast is, is in the same mindset, whatever you need, right? Whatever you, and that's how it's it always is. And that's why I love being a part of this. I love having this podcast where we can exemplify what guys are doing, because it's so much bigger than the job. It's so much bigger. People don't understand it if they're not in it. And this is just a little bit of a window that we can show them, you know, how much we care about each other, how much we care about our communities, uh, and, and really making 'em better. It takes a special person to put on that badge. And it takes more of a special person to do even more when that badge is in our locker. And that's our whole

Gerry: (46:42)
Preface. That's right. That's right. Uh, so that's my story, boys. Uh, uh, you know, I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to, uh, tell my story and, uh, and share what you thought about our book. And, uh, another nice thing, a big thing that's that's come from the book is we're getting it out to the schools because our educational system, as you all know, they're not teaching anything about nine 11. Oh,

Stephen J: (47:09)
A bad thing that happened on a bad day. Right? Jerry, that's what they're saying. Now you gotta be kidding me. I mean, they're saying it's a bad thing that happened on a bad day. Oh yeah.

Gerry: (47:17)
Oh, disgusting. Yes. So we're, we've been sending books out to different, uh, schools to teachers, to educators. And I'll ask you to spread the word. If anybody wants the book, please reach out to us. We'll be happy. In fact, uh, we did a, a zoom meeting about a week before nine 11 in which, uh, a school up in, uh, Northern Ohio, eight, eighth grade, uh, classes. And they listened to me and, and Chris and sent us, we do, we do a crazy thing at night. You're gonna laugh. I'm probably the oldest one ever do. It's called TikTok. all right. You talk about, they call me the OG, the old goat, which is right. okay. This is the amount of letters I got back from these eighth grade children. That's incredible. And at night I get choked up reading what they say about nine 11 and, and about what I did. I mean, it's, it's incredible. The, the word is getting out slowly, but that's, that's really, if anything comes out of this book is that we're getting this story out and it's, as you know, so, uh, Steve, I didn't mention any of the stuff that we saw down there. You know, none of that negative. I'm not even gonna use the words, you know what I'm talking about, uh, down there that horrible day. Well, we

Stephen J: (48:42)
Had Mitch Sulan on, uh, on an episode, Mitch was one of the canine guys down there that was part of the recovery efforts. So, you know, people who were down there, you know, I, I was very ancillary going down with bringing food down to first responders from the culinary Institute of America, where, where, where I work, you know, but if you saw any of it, even the people that just saw it on TV will never forget those moments. And nor should we ever forget. No, but the, the day I wanna remember more Jerry than nine 11 and nine, 10 is nine, 12, oh boy. How America came together as well. And if we can't get back to that, we're in a lot of trouble in our future. We

Gerry: (49:18)
Were all new Yorkers. I say that a lot. You know, we were all one. You couldn't find a flag to buy, then you could just couldn't find them. That's right. And I remember, I know guests that you'll have on, we are on west street. There was only one way at it got to every point. There was only, it only, you could only go in one way. And that was going south on west street. Maybe we went to canal street and made a left and you went down, but there were thousands of, I will never forget this. There were thousands of strangers, thousands of people standing there, USA. USA. Yep. Thanking us. I mean, I two o'clock in the morning, five o'clock in the morning. It didn't matter. They were there cheering us first responders on. I mean, that's gone it's we lost it. I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened. So if we can get the word out to the children that you know, and these letters, I mean, they just light me up when I hear that. What these kids. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for telling them, because a lot of the teachers, a lot of their parents, you know, they, they don't know what's going on about nine 11. Yeah. So, uh, again, thank you, man. I really, I really appreciate you, uh, taking the time and having me on your show, Jerry,

Stephen J: (50:39)
If there, if there was something you could tell these young people who want to attain the level that you did in the F D N Y, or want to be an author, or just, if you could give them one piece of advice, if they're listening, what would you tell a young person today?

Gerry: (50:52)
Well, to start off with love each other, you know, my mother used to say, Gerald, it doesn't cost anything to be nice to people. And if, if it's anything I could say, is those words be nice to, to each other. I don't know what's going on. Everybody. Everybody has a long pus on now, but let's get away from that. Let's get back to where we were unified. We were all one, you know, and, uh, volunteer and help, uh, go be a boy scout, a girl scout or something like that. Be in the police, auxiliary in the fire, uh, Explorer, clubs or something, or, or the military. And, uh, I, I don't mean to, to, to knock the colleges, but you know what? We talk about this on TikTok just the other night. And I think everybody goes to college now. And they, the, the, the student debt, the amount of student debt is astronomical.

Gerry: (51:52)
It's through the roof and they come out, whatever their degree is in. And they're making peanuts, they're making 30, $40,000 a year. And it takes them years. We have two hands, you know, college education is not for everybody, right? So for you kids out there, I tell these kids at night, you know, there's a big hole in the manufacturing and everything of this country. So it doesn't, it's not hard to be a truck. Driver is nothing wrong from being an H V a C installer or a plumber or electrician. And, uh, I went to high school. My father wanted me to become an electrician, but this is off the grid. So I took, I majored, I went to a, a technical and vocational high school to be an electrician I graduate. And, uh, he says to me, I got a job for you. Oh, really?

Gerry: (52:44)
Where's that banker trust company. Cause he was a banker. Oh, that's great. Pop. I'm glad I went, uh, to all these years at, at a technical school and now I'm gonna become a banker. Okay. So, uh, that was the end of my career. So my point, yeah, what I'm trying to say is just because you go, you start and you get your education in one field. That doesn't mean that that's what you're gonna be. That was 27 years old. I became a police officer. Yeah. Did I ever think way back? Somebody asked me the other night, uh, at 20, I said 20, I was married at 20. I says, now you can't get kids to get two socks together at 20 . I said never nevermind. 20 years old being married. Oh no, I don't think so. Not now. Not now, but anyway, I don't mean to go on and on, but please love each other, like each other and help each other out. I love it.

Stephen J: (53:33)
Sorry. The, the one question we always end with with our guests is how do you define a hero?

Gerry: (53:39)
I tell you the heroes are, I have a picture right here on the wall, my 343 brothers. They were the heroes. They pulled up on their rigs. They knew this was the biggest thing in their lives. And they went in without hesitation and helped thousands of people to evacuate. And people called me a hero. I no way near a hero. I might have had my time in the job. I saw my crap, but my brother's right here. I'm looking at 'em now 343. Those are the hero. And the heroes are the men in blue, the firefighters that are out there today on the rigs and go into all of these stuff out there. They're the heroes. Well, not Jerry.

Stephen J: (54:21)
I, I agree with you, Jerry, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna not agree with one thing. And I do think you're a hero. And I think that anybody that is willing to put themselves in harm's way to help another is an absolute hero. You did that for so many years without hesitation, you went towards the danger and now sharing your story. That's also another heroic effort in a different way where you're able to share this, this story with these kids who weren't even born yet, or weren't old enough to understand what was happening. That's very special. So thank you so much for sharing your story. Thanks for coming and talking to us. I feel honored to speak with you and I salute you. And, uh, you know, I hope next time you're up in New York, we can get together for a beverage

Gerry: (55:03)
Then Paul sounds good, guys.

Stephen J: (55:14)
I am so happy to be one of the podcasts and Jerry's been on many, you know, we're not taking all the glory here, uh, cuz he's on his own publicity tour. Yeah. For the book. But I am so thrilled to be one of the ones that gets the cat, his story. That was awesome. That was so cool. You know, Justin, one of the things we've been doing is we, we have many guests that come through the doors here in the studio that we have set up and you know, every once in a while we ask guests to stay. Yeah. You know, it's, it's a, we've got a cool environment here. It's casual. And if someone wants to hang out and, and here the next interview and, and we have the room to do it, why not? So we had a couple guests stay for this one and one of 'em and I'm not gonna get into anything, but one of 'em was down there at nine 11 and it got emotional in here a little bit.

Stephen J: (55:56)
It, it really did. And even Jerry got emotional and I gotta tell you what a story, what a story of here, man. And you know, Hey, here's the good news. This is gonna be on right before Christmas. If you want to get a great gift for somebody, I think you could go, you can, you can go right on Amazon. Yeah. Amazon everywhere, Barnes noble. And it's the helmet. Jerry, start with helmet. You can, you can pick up the book. It's it's very reasonably priced. Yep. It's it's going to a great cause. One of the things Jerry's doing and he mentioned it is he's given these books away to students and to teachers and, and to schools to not forget the story of nine 11. Yeah. It's so important. It's so important. And it it's something that, uh, uh, you know, I've mentioned before you, when you hear these stories, you always get a perspective that you don't get ed without them.

Stephen J: (56:44)
And the one that really resonated with me on this one was the weather on 9, 10, 9, 10. Right. If you remember that, he mentioned that and I, I, it really took me back to say, yeah, you know what, no one remembers what happened the day before nine 11. Uh, I'd have no idea what the, what the hell the weather was. And for him to talk about rain, that's just almost inconceivable to me because of how beautiful nine 11 was in New York here. So wild, wild stuff, just a great story. I'm, I'm so happy that he got it down on paper and is able to share that. And again, that we are one of the, one of the many, but definitely, uh, personal touch to us to grab that story and be able to share it with you guys. So make sure that, uh, you do support Jerry and, and everything he's doing by going to Amazon by that book.

Stephen J: (57:28)
Um, it started with a helmet and, uh, support the cause, man. Yeah. And it's like you said, it's a perfect gift for someone. It's a perfect gift. Yeah. Easy read. It's it's a great book. It's uplifting. It's positive. It's it's a, it's a great book. Great story. Well, thanks to, for listening to behind the 10 and hearing about how our heroes are heroes with the tin on and off, make sure you like follow, subscribe and share behind the ten.com and make sure to, uh, leave us a voicemail. It's a new feature on our website. If you go to behind the ten.com, there's a little button of a microphone. You can click it and leave us a voicemail that we will play on the air if it's appropriate. And while you're doing that, make sure you click and buy a coffee to coffee and air quotes, of course. But you can be a cocktail over conversation by buying us a, a coffee. Yeah. And we're always appreciative, especially at Christmas time. So once again, everybody ho, ho, ho, look out for one another and stay safe.