Recon, K-9s and the PTSD our heroes face with PO Mitch Serlin

Stephen J: (00:11)
Welcome to behind its in a podcast that introduces you to the ROIC men and women who wear the in while protecting our community. Hearing about the extraordinary things they're doing when their badges and their locker. Steven J the good Lieutenant here with my friend, Justin, the civilian producer Christmas is right around the corner and I couldn't be more excited. Oh, and what do you do at Christmas time, but give, so I wast somebody give us the cocktail river conversation sponsor today, which is Caleb T of Poughkeepsie, New York CA thank you. Thank you so much. And once again, thank you to the Hyde park brewing company for this fabulous beer that we're tasting today. And it's Justin's favorite that blonde a my absolute favorite. If you wanna be a cocktail over conversation sponsor, just visit behind the ten.com. If you wanna be a sponsor along with those guys, print.com.

Stephen J: (01:00)
Visit behind the 10 do com and you too can be announced just like those guys. print.com. You so whole lot of.com going on over there. You got a.com the hell outta this podcast, Justin. So let's continue with yours marketing and service.com. Listen to Justin's podcast@marketingandservice.com. Well, Justin, here's another guy and I'm gonna start off by saying this I've I've known this quite some time. He's very involved in the community, very involved in first responders and veterans, but he's a guy that is so humble and never talks about himself. So this one, this one's gonna be interesting, cuz I haven't heard much of Mitch's story. Yeah, let let's, uh, let's bring him in and check it out. Misser. Come on into the studio. So welcome Mitch. Thank you. We are so happy to have you, you and another guy here that has gone above and beyond your entire life, you know, you started from what I remember in the us army. That's correct. And did your service thank you for your service. Let's start with that. Thank you. Thank you. And then you said that wasn't enough. So it became a police officer in one of the largest counties in New York.

Mitch : (02:08)
Yeah, by default.

Stephen J: (02:09)
But yes, but, but you know, not, not enough service in the army we're gonna do. How, how did this all happen? How did you end up in the army? Was that your choice? Uh, was it directed by family? Let let's, let's hear a little bit about that background. Oh,

Mitch : (02:20)
When I first got outta the high school, I wanna to go into the service and my father was like, no, you should go to college. You know? So I was like, nah, I wanna go in the service. And he's like, listen, go two years to college. If you don't like it, you know what, at least you have a degree, then you can go in, you could be an officer. I said, all right. So I went in and believe it or not, I was from originally from the Bronx, moved up to Westchester when I was young and my father own a meat packing plant in the city. So when I was about 17, I said to my father, I said, dad, what are those across the street? And he goes, oh, those are VE calves. And I said, what? And he goes, oh, you don't know what those are.

Mitch : (02:57)
Do you? And I'm like, no, believe it or not. They used to bring him in on the fur, on the rails. They had the skin still on him to keep him from bruising. So anyway, he sent me for a summer up Columbia county to a slaughter house that he was dealing with. And anyway, I fell in love with farming and I was gonna be a farmer. So I went to college when I was getting out. They did the day, every buyout. So the government was buying all these dairy farms. So there was no jobs. So I was like, what am I gonna do when I was just working for my father again, as a butcher in the city. And

Justin: (03:28)
You, you went to college for like agriculture

Mitch : (03:30)
Or? Yeah. Uh, Anne hu dairy was the thing. I was a dairy farm. I was the only city kid. So they loved me and I did some weird stuff like AR insemination classes, trying to drive a tractor. They were laughing at me cuz I never drove a tractor before, but it was great. You know? And I love it. I still wanna do that eventually, but I was working for my father in the city and then, uh, you know, I was getting in trouble actually believe it or not. And I'm like, I gotta do something. I gotta get out of the neighborhood. I gotta go and do, I'm gonna join the military. So I went and I ended up joining the us army. After some time I scored well in the ASFA and I took it for two years cuz I wasn't sure I was gonna like that either. I was like, ah, wake God for two years. And they're like, oh infantry. And I'm like, all right, I'll take that. So nobody in my family ever had gone to college and nobody had ever been in the military check the boxes. Yeah. I was checking the boxes. I guess

Justin: (04:23)
what, what actually brought you to that decision because I know we've had this conversation before, when, when you're young, you're getting in trouble. It's really easy to kind of go down one of two paths. Right. Uh, and you probably chose the harder of the two paths by deciding, uh, that you wanted to take yourself off out of that situation and put yourself into military service.

Mitch : (04:44)
Uh, you know, part of it was, you know, I didn't wanna get in real trouble. I was lucky I was starting to get in trouble and I got lucky. One time I got in a, a fight and I ended up breaking the kids' jaw and I could have went to jail for that. And I'm like, uh, right. You know what, enough's enough? So let me do something with my life. And I said, you know what? I'll go in the military. I get some discipline. I always wanted to go, you know, but didn't do it cuz of my father's wishes. So then anyway, I joined the military and then I ended up going to the hundred first airborne division and doing really well believe or not that the screaming Eagles, that's the screaming and Eagles brother.

Stephen J: (05:22)
I'm on it. My dad was 82nd airborne. So I know the little rivalry guy. Oh's a guy going, he's actually at a reunion right now as we speak. Oh square second. It's pretty crazy. So you joined the military, you do two years or how many, how long? I ended up,

Mitch : (05:36)
I ended up doing three years. So as I was just about to get out. So when I got into the military at first, I'll tell you a crazy story, but you know, I didn't know. I was just infantry guy and we, my unit came back from the MFO machine, which was the Sinai. So they were on block leave. I ended up going to aerosol school. And then when they got back, the first field problem, where you go out in the field, the first Sergeant grabs me, he goes, Hey, you're going on the quartering party. And I'm like, what's the quartering party? And he goes, just get with Sergeant card. You'll be all right, they'll take you out. So basically it was a reconnaissance for this assembly area and you go out like six hours ahead of the, this your unit, you find their area and then they, you bring them in.

Mitch : (06:20)
So anyway, we're, we're doing this and I'm a kid from the city, you know, pretty much I grew up in Westchester. It wasn't like really country, but I had haunted, you know? So I'd been in the woods before and we're walking at one point, we're in the woods for like three hours. We walked by this tree and I'm like, wow, that's a weird looking tree. It's like all overgrown weird shape. And I'm like, oh that's cool. And then we're stopping and I have to turn around cause I'm rear security. So I keep turning around the only private and at one point like three hours later, I go by that tree again and I go, now we're lost now. I figured it out. So we stop again and I hear the guy's going, oh no, no we're over. We're over here. And they're being quiet, you know, there's nobody really there, but they're trying to do the right thing.

Mitch : (07:03)
So I turn around, I go, what's the problem. He goes, we're lost. And I go, well, let's you go out to the road and we'll figure out where we're at. Cuz we could hear the Humvees going by for hours, you know? And the kid goes, what you think there's New York city. You could just go out, figure out where youre like pizza shop down the block. and I grab the map and I'm the only private, there's four specialists. And then the Sergeant and they're, you know, just arguing, I grab the map and I walk out, I make a right and I go down the road and I see artillery road and range road. I come back, I go we're right F in here. And he goes, what? I go we're right here. He goes. How do you know? I, I saw the sign 42nd street in Broadway.

Mitch : (07:40)
we're right here. so anyway, we get out. Finally they go, okay, now we know where we're at. We walk out and the first Sergeant grabs us. He's like, what the hell happened? We were looking for you. We were running the Humvees up and down the street and I go first Sergeant 42nd street, Broadway. These efforts got us lost. I dunno if I can curse. So trying to sure. Okay. I go, these got us lost and he just looked at me and I just kept walking and he came over and he grabbed me. He goes, I want you to be in a recon team. I go, he, I want you to be in a recon platoon. You gotta be top of your, uh, you gotta be expert rifle. You have to have 292 out of 300 or better PT score. And you gotta be recommended by all your, you know, superiors.

Mitch : (08:21)
And they're all like, yeah, this kid's squared away. So anyway, I got in the reconnaissance unit and that was like a really good unit. I was able to go to special schools. I ended up going to sniper school through that unit and it was great. I mean, I was really fast track and I made believe it or not, I got held back cuz I was in that unit and oh, sorry. I, I got held back cuz I was in that unit cause I was attached. So a lot of guys were passing me for rank, but I made Sergeant in 25 months and you know, I got a lot of responsibility and then the first Gulf war started, I was in the field with my unit and they're like, everybody were going back to the rear 1500 brigade. Me, you know, uh, uh, sorry. Uh, it was a brigade formation, which we never had and I'm like, uhoh something's going on?

Mitch : (09:10)
We didn't know that Iraq at, uh, attack KU at the time. Cause we're in the field. We had no communications. So I'd never to forget it. The first, uh, commands arm majors like boys, get your affairs in order. We're leaving in the next, sometime in the next three weeks, we're going to Southwest Asia and I'm like, we're going to Vietnam. Cause I was looking over at the kid next to me. He goes, I don't know. I think Southwest Asia, that's Vietnam. I guess I should have done better in yeah. Geography, but ended up going overseas with them. And that's when I got my E five, which I was Sergeant and I was an assistant team leader for reconnaissance team. And we were up in Iraq for a while. So it was a good experience, you know? And then when I came out, I extended myself for a while and then I just decided, you know what?

Mitch : (09:57)
I don't want to it's either go SF, which is the track that most of the guys in my platoon went and you're gone for like nine, 10 months a year. It's not really a life for a kid. I didn't want that. So that's when I decided to come back and believe it or not, I didn't wanna originally be a cop. Uh, one of my good friends, who's on my board of my charity that I started this guy, Joe, Karina goes, Hey Mitch, take the test. And I go, nah, I'm sick. You're getting shot at, you know, I'm good brother. And he goes, no, no, no, you never know. It's $35 outta your it's 35 bucks and it's three hours outta your day and you may need a job. And I said, all right. So I took the test for New York city. It took Westchester's test and I scored really high and they hired me, you know, I eventually got on Westchester county PD. And what year was that? 1994. So

Stephen J: (10:44)
94 you're out of the military now. Yeah, just exiting. And you're like, you know what? I got nothing else to do. I took the test cuz your buddy says to and you get, you get hired.

Mitch : (10:53)
Yeah. You know what I got when I score well and then they wanted me, I missed that comradery and I knew that it was not like the military where they sort of own yet. And I love the military. Don't get me wrong, but it was, I could go home at night, you know? So I was like, you know what? I missed the comradery I wanted to get on the job. So that's why I ended up taking the

Stephen J: (11:14)
Job. So you take in 1994, they hire you in Western Chester county, which is a larger PD for people who don't know that, you know, it's right outside New York city, just north of the Bronx on the Hudson river, beautiful area, very wealthy areas of Westchester county and very poor areas of Westchester county. Oh yeah. You know, so what was your primary assignment once you, once you started there?

Mitch : (11:34)
So I was patrol, I stayed on patrol my whole career. I loved it. I loved being on the street. I think it has to do a lot of it with my PTSD. I can't be inside. I can't, you know, like I can't deal with that type of stuff, paperwork and stuff. I wanna be where the action was. And uh, so I stayed on the road. We caught the road or the street and uh, for the first, uh, three years, you know, I was just a regular patrolman. Then they knew that I had all these skills from the military. So they wanted me on the SWAT team. We called the cert team special response. So when I was in my third year, I was allowed to, uh, then try out. So I try it out. I made the team, which was part-time. Uh, we did a lot of full-time like we were there every month and we trained every month, but we were just, we responded, we weren't just, that was not just our sign. So I did that for not up until my ninth year. And then I got canine and believe it or not, I got it by default in a way. But my department was looking for somebody to tra get a tracking dog and uh, and another dog and I got two dogs. I got canine, tho I still eight on the road. I still was patrol, but I had those extra responsibilities and I did that till the end of my career.

Stephen J: (12:59)
Yeah. And for those who don't know, I mean, canine takes a lot of physical exertion, you know, they think it's just walking around with a dog and looking pretty and having it. But especially with a tracking dog, you know, you're looking for missing people or articles. You're out there, you're hiking and you're in terrain where many people haven't gone before. Usually

Mitch : (13:17)
That is correct. Uh, and just to give somebody an idea, you know, you could do like an immediate flight and a, maybe 150 yard track. But my longest track was from Mount Vernon to white Plains was eight and a half miles. Wow. And I'm running behind that dog.

Stephen J: (13:33)
Yeah. He's, he's on the track. He's going, you know, but you know, I've, I've been on tracks with canine guys and they always assign another officer. Right. Who's never done a canine track in his life, but you know, go with Mitch and you're not there to watch the dog. That's your job. That's the canine handle's dog. You're there to protect Mitch. And you gotta keep up with him. And these guys who are train all the time, they're gone, like Mitch just said, he's running. You're like Jesus Christ. I, I, I didn't know I had to do this. I didn't dress the part. These guys show up in BDU and comfy pants where, you know, in a, in a half dress uniform going through the fields and the woods. But man, the training that you guys do is a lot. It is a lot. Now what, when, when you jumped into this, did you just kind of fall into it or this was a something you really wanted to do?

Mitch : (14:16)
So I had put in for canine when we first started getting dogs again, and that was, uh, I forget 2000, about 97. I put in for the dog and they had two bomb dogs that they had put on the apartment. So I did have my name in there. Okay. But they also knew that I hunted, I was a woodsman. So my captain, captain Citis, uh, he's a sharp guy. You know, I would tease him all day long, but he was a sharp guy and he saw that we were gonna get a tra a tracking dog. We were gonna get a bloodhound. Believe it or not. Steve's apartment was the one that tested the dog. We rescued this bloodhound. Her name is Gracie. And one of his, one of the deputy sheriffs in Duss county tested the dog said, oh, that his dog at work. Wow. So they were like, we need somebody who's woodsman. You know, we need somebody, who's not a city kid and whatever. So they go, Mitch, you interested there's Mitch in yeah. Five guys that said the city boy. Yeah. Five guys that said no before me. Yeah. How, what,

Justin: (15:16)
How long is the training for the dog to, to be a,

Mitch : (15:20)
So the original training was eight weeks. And

Justin: (15:24)
Is that with you and the dog or the dog does training without you and then you join in later on.

Mitch : (15:29)
So it's I keep hitting it. I'm sorry. Um, so it's funny. It depends. When I trained, my trainer was a New York city bomb dog trainer. He had 35 years experience training, bomb, dogs, and labs. He didn't like bloodhounds. He was elderly. So what he would do is sit in his car and he then me out and then he would drive to the end. But in the middle I was by myself. So, uh, a lot of times I'm running through the woods by myself, me and the dog. And I, we didn't know what we were doing. We were all over the place. and at one point I never forget it. We were at the academy and he was able to drive along with us. And I'm, he's saying you see that the dogs had his day down, the tail is up, she's on go with her and she's going like, but she's not going very fast.

Mitch : (16:17)
Then all of a sudden she starts to pull and her head goes straight out and her tail comes straight out and she's pulling and he goes, you see that she's off, pull her off. And I pulled that dog off. And that dog for five days would not, when we come outta the car and would sit down and would not start the track. And he goes, ah, you see those blood downs. They never forget anything. They forget things right away. You could teach 'em. And I had a lab at the time as well. So we would train both. Believe it or not. I had two dogs with my commissioner. Sister-in-law had a dog that was nice, but it was better at the police department because it was mean to the other dog he had. Okay. so we made her a live sense search dog. And that's the dog.

Mitch : (16:57)
I took down to nine 11 with me. So I actually was down at nine 11 and did rescue op recovery operations with the dog. We thought we were doing rescue at first, but it was mostly recovery. Yeah. So, but I then the day of my certification, I came back and they call him Jimmy Hicks. But Sergeant Hicks at the time says, all right, let's see how she's doing. So I take the blood hound out and we're running, I'm chasing Carl Mart, a friend of mine. Who's bloodhound hanger from Duches. And uh, he goes, yeah, see that she's on her head is out and her tails out. And I'm like, oh, I've been reading this dog awkward for eight, eight weeks. no wonder she hates me. You know? So you know, it just it's eight weeks. And then it's like a year and a half or two years before they really finish out and start to really get what they're doing. So it just sort of depends, you know?

Stephen J: (17:50)
Wow. So how many dogs you had in your career? I mean, you had a long career.

Mitch : (17:54)
So I had 11 years, I had the two dogs I had. Wow. The one dog. Believe it or not. Right after nine 11. She didn't trust me anymore. Cuz we put her in situations that she just didn't like, yeah, she didn't like the smell of the decomposition of the bodies. She didn't like the POS you know, the holes that they were dropping us down into. So she lost that bond with me. So we ended up give, making her a narcotics dog with a friend of mine. Uh, luckily he got the dog and then I had the blood hound and she just lasted my whole career. Luckily she was in great shape and she was a beast, 107 pounds. She, she did 11 years. That's

Stephen J: (18:28)
Almost unheard of. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

Mitch : (18:30)
That's great. So I was able to train two of my two guys behind me, two of my predecessors, a guy named Matt, no tower. Who's now also on my board of my charity and Brian Tierney. Oh Brian. Yeah. Yeah. I trained both of those guys and they're great guys and hard charges and they like what they're doing. So it's great.

Stephen J: (18:48)
So eight weeks for the school with the dog to get through it and then you have to get tested out. And then about a year, year and a half to really create that bond and understand what, what each other's doing that trust factor with, with the canine. What was, uh, what was some of the most remarkable tracks that you've done through your career with either dog?

Mitch : (19:09)
So we did Gracie and I did over 700 actual cases. Wow. We had a lot of work cuz we, we would get a lot of work cuz we were the only blood out in the area. And at first, my first year was 15 tracks. And then all of a sudden these jurisdictions started realizing they could call me and oh this is different from when the way the Shepherd's doing, it's not better, but it's front. And we were able to do, you know, I mean we did anywhere from immediate flight to, I did a track that was five and a half days old and actually was confirmed that we were correct. Uh, we had a guy from Alon mass come into our jurisdiction on one of those like snowbird truck deals where they moved the cars back and forth. Yep. And it was weird. He, he was a Russian, a Russian national.

Mitch : (20:02)
And anyway, Metro north catches these Russians on the tracks and they're like, you know, you can't be on the tracks, writes them tickets, you know, get outta here. And they couldn't communi, but this one woman, she spoke a little broken English. She says, we're looking for my brother, my brother, he ran away. So they were like, I go to go to the local jurisdiction. They went to Mount Kisco, ma Kisco like, oh, we can't do this. You know, call the county and see if the Bloodhound's working. And I happen to be working so able to get a jacket. I was able to introduce the dog to, um, all the individuals that were in the truck. And from the start, she ran up the saw mill. She got on the saw mill, which was they where they said the last time I saw him was up on the ramp.

Mitch : (20:44)
There, she runs down into this one little like it's like a dirt path that goes back into the woods. And sh her, the sister said I was talking to him and I could hear the train bell. And he was saying, no, the, the cross things are closed. I gotta turn around. And the cops are chasing me. So anyway, we ended up tracking to the train, crossing, the dog, loses the track. And then we kind of, for two days we were searching around or a day and a half we're searching around. And one of the officers that was on his regular days off comes back and sees the little, you know, memo were looking for this guy. He goes, I know that guy. I picked him up, but the train and crossing there and I told him, he's gotta get off the highway. Cuz he can't walk on the highway.

Mitch : (21:31)
I ran him through the MDT, which didn't go through headquarters. But it went through, he didn't have any warrant warrants. I dropped him off. He told him a crazy story that, oh, keep in that, sorry brother. Um, told him a crazy story that his, him and his wife had a fight and he laughed the house and the guy was like, oh right. You didn't, you know, you didn't beat her up. Nobody's looking for you. He dropped him off the next exit. And uh, we then went down there like three days later and we found his body in the, in the water. He was having a heart attack. Nobody knew it having some kind of no kidding episode. Yeah. So that was pretty wild. Um, I, that was five and a half days old. And then, I mean, there was so many tracks, but you know, we did most of the time give them in information cuz you didn't always find the guys, especially they'd get on the buss to trains.

Mitch : (22:22)
A lot of guys said, oh your dog went to the bus. Stop again. I'm like, well it got confirmed. Give 'em a bus pass. Keep the that. Yeah, we had some good ones. I never forget one guy Alzheimer's patient. You'll like this story. So we get called to Eastchester for an Alzheimer's patient. My husband's got Alzheimer's he's been diagnosed about a month and a half ago. He can't walk 50 yards without forgetting where he is, where he is and he's been missing all day. Right? So he take the sent article. We go down, Gracie goes to the bus stop. She starts indicating on the bus and I tell the boss that's running with me. I go, the guy got on the bus goes. You sure? I go, well, I'm pretty confident. I said, but I'll let you know. We'll go back and try it again.

Mitch : (23:06)
As we're walking back to the house, we hear Yonkers got the guy he in Yonkers, which is just a couple jurisdictions over. You're not walking there from where his house is. So they bring him back. And I just, you know, we always interviewed somebody if we could, sir, can I talk to you for a second? He said, sure. So I pull him to the side, said, listen, my dog tracked you down to the bus. Stop there. Do you remember where you went? And he looks one way, he looks the other way. And he goes, I got diagnosed with Alzheimer a month and a half ago. My wife thinks I can't even walk out to the mailbox. He goes yesterday. I got my, my pension check. I went down to the bank. I cashed it. I put all the money in my pocket. I went down to the bus this morning, got on the bus, went to Yonkers race. We lost all my money and he goes, so I saw the first cop. I, you know, that was sitting there and I go, I'm the guy you're looking for. And he goes, what are you talking about? He goes, I know my wife caught cuz he thinks I got Alzheimer's. I go, don't worry, brother. Your secret's good with me. So, so we had all kinds of crazy stuff happen.

Stephen J: (24:07)
So you had mentioned nine 11. I just wanna circle back to that. I mean, obviously a really rough time. We, we actually talked about, uh, Jerry Saffer, who we're gonna be having on, on podcasting in your future and his story about nine 11. But you know, these firsthand witnesses were, we're losing you guys. And uh, you know, our, our thing up here is we were taking food from the CIA culinary Institute of America and bringing it down to, to the first responders who were working. And that was our little bit, but you know, you were down there with, with a lot of guys. I know. And uh, I, you know, just your experience with that, just enlighten us a little bit. Um, because I, I don't wanna lose that history.

Mitch : (24:45)
Um, I was working a day tour on the road, on the Hutch and I remember believe it or I was listening to, uh, we had just gotten FM radios with our cars and uh, I was listening to Howard stern and I remember him saying, oh my God, a plane hit the towers, you know? And I'm like, ah, one of those little single engine guys must have got to who close and clipped it. You know, that was my first thought. And then I hear 'em go, oh my God, another one. And I knew right away. So like I said, I was special response team. So we immediately get called back to headquarters to the, to the academy we gear up and we go down and believe it or not, we were down there for about 27 hours. Um, just moving around. And unfortunately like New York city was overwhelmed as professional as the job they were, they are, you know, you get punched in a gut like that.

Mitch : (25:36)
It was difficult. And we were down at the Javit center at one point. And I just remember, you know them saying, listen, we really appreciate you guys being here. But right now we're just overwhelmed. Just give us a list of all the guys are here. Cuz if you do go in, if you happen to go into the rub, we need some kind of log. And then what specialties you have. And then they told 'em that I had a live sent, uh, live sent search dog. So they were like, okay, perfect. We'll put you on the list. We ended up getting bounced to the south street, Seaport to protect, uh, and, and a staging area. But they were protecting that. There's a, like an electrical grid, uh, station there. Okay. We spent a lot of time there in a crazy story. I'm actually walking the dog and I was up in Corning, New York, about two weeks prior to that, I had a side business for a deer hunting product.

Mitch : (26:32)
And I happened to be there with my, a friend of mine. Who's a civilian, but he was my partner in the business and we went to the bar and we're walking down the street and some cop pulls up to us. It's late at night. He goes, oh, you gotta get off the street. And I'm like, ah, no problem. Listen, I'm on the job. I'm sorry. We're going to some after hours place, is this place cool to go to? And he goes, yeah, yeah. Oh, where do you work? Bababa was just talking. He, oh, that's cool. Well, when I was down at nine 11, I was walking the dog and I look over the Corning car and I go, dude, you just told me to get off the street LA two weeks. Cause I remember you. So just like a crazy story, you know, but we spent some time down there and then after the 27 hours, we ended up rotating back cuz we needed to have a break.

Mitch : (27:13)
And uh, I went back down with the dog and I worked the dog for a couple days while I was still okay by the commissioner. And uh, it was, it was the worst of times. It was the best of times. Um, I mean it was like five from what I remember, you know, cuz it was, it's just like some of it's a blur, but you know, its like five stories just rubble. You had to climb this mountain rubble to get up to the top where they were working and then, you know, everybody sees, you got a dog. She's like, oh my God, the dog's here. Oh try over here, try over here. And it was great cuz you gave people closure, but it was kind of sad. You know, they pulling up body parts and yeah. You know, dog would indicate on a rock and then the, the priest would come over and give lash rights to the rock.

Mitch : (28:04)
And I never forget, we found, I don't know, maybe it was a pile of just intestines and uh, the dog was, you know, really like, whoa, what's that? So we found the intestines, that fire department came over, cuz they had guys just assigned to like, if they found anything that had to do with a fireman, they stayed with it, which was beautiful. And that's why I say it was sort of the best times. Cause you really see the humanity and people. Yeah. And the caring, I mean outside the rubble, everybody was there helping like CIA, you know, food was there, boots, things came from everywhere. People we saw guys from Tokyo cops from Tokyo over there. Wow. But it, you know, we did end up flying on a full fireman, uh, which was nice. Cuz somebody got real closure. They were able to, I don't know if you know, we, I never asked a name.

Mitch : (28:58)
Sure. I don't wanna know, but you know, it's tough and it's, it's not easy cuz people don't realize, like I try to tell people like on nine 11 we had a concert in Oster county and I said, I walked on the impromptu grave of over 3000 people. And if you think this country needs to have some resolve, they need to remember what nine 11 was all about. It's not a joke when you're sitting in your family members. People I grew up with, you know, were in that rubble. Yeah. and it's, you know, it brings chills to me every time I think about it. But I was glad to be able to do my part. So

Stephen J: (29:36)
You also mentioned, uh, PTSD earlier and dealing with that and you work in the military, you're working in law enforcement, you know, going to, to scenes like that, you took that and you made it something, you made a foundation to help others who have recognized the PTSD and themselves or, or maybe somebody else has recognized it for them. And you created this great organization. And I really want to share that. And I want people to know that a it's it exists, but B it's available and you, you know, I've known you for a while now. You've never said no to helping anybody I've ever called and said, Hey man, what, what can we do for this guy? And to be that resource. So let's talk a little bit about hope for heroes.

Mitch : (30:19)
Okay. So when I was retiring, I had about six, eight months left on the job and I wanted to do something to give back to us, our community, you know, people don't realize police, fire, EMS, medical workers. You give, every time you go to a scene, you give a piece of your self away and people don't realize it. You know, they think we're oh, oh, you're the bad guys. Oh, you're the guys always taking my daddy away or whatever. And it's BS. We're not there because we wanna be it's that we're there cuz we have to be. But we also have that, uh, that nature that we're just wanna give of. I mean, some of it, I think is we're we're a little nosy. I remember being this kid. I always wanna know what's going on with the cops over there. Now when you're there, you're able to know what's going on.

Mitch : (31:10)
But you know, a lot of times you don't realize, but you don't wanna know what's going on. You know, we see the horrors, not only in casualties, wounded people or whatever, but you you're always there for the worst time in their life. And as a cop, I tried to do the right thing. I was welfare patrol for a long time. Cuz when I had the canine, it was, it gave me the ability to be anywhere in the county at any time. So I worked a welfare car for nine years and you don't realize like, oh yeah, you just monitor these people on welfare. Now you got involved. They especially, they all knew me. Officer Mitch was my name, officer Mitch. Oh officer Mitch. And I'd be running tracks sometimes you're like yo officer Mitch, yo. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, Hey, what's up? You know?

Mitch : (31:53)
But you see like the horror, you know, some of these kids lives and how they grow up. And I know that affects people. Yeah, man on our job. So I was like, I, I gotta do something for us and encompass every person who answers the call and that's the way I describe it. Whoever answers the call, if they're injured in the line to do the year PTSD or severely injured, you know, physically injured somehow I wanna help them in some way, shape or form. And I only have certain skills. I always, as a hunter, I newly hunting industry. So I said, you know what? I can start something doing hunting and fishing. Just getting people outdoors together. Be a part of something that you know, is the comradery again. Cuz when you're outside the job, people don't realize, but you're outside the job at that point, even though I still have ties, you're not always part of it. And guys suffer from that. And I know I did, you know, like I said, I have PTSD from a lot of the stuff I saw overseas and then the job as well know, and I was like, you know what, let me start something. So this is what I did. And it's been a little over 10 years now. So

Justin: (33:06)
How many people have been through the, the program

Mitch : (33:09)
Approximately 400. Wow. Uh, so I I'm bad with keeping count the actual numbers, but it, I know we kind of, I average 30 to 40 individuals a year. Um, we started down in Kentucky, which was where I was stationed figured I'm gonna be close to my old unit and they'll be able to help. And recently we just purchased a piece of property up in Columbia county, 120 acres. And we planned to build a home there and bring the individuals in and I just use whatever skills I got on canine. You know, how

Justin: (33:45)
Do you, uh, generally find the people who need help? Are they referred to you or are you reaching out to people or people just reaching out to you from word of mouth? So

Mitch : (33:54)
It's a lot of ways people come to our website and we have a way you can sign up and will get individuals like that. We have a network, you know, cops have a network. Military guys have a network. I tap into guys that I served with and I'll tell you a crazy story. But one of our first hunts in Kentucky, uh, I go down there and I get a call from the guy who's identifying these individuals cuz uh, at Fort Campbell had what they call warrior transition battalion. And they had a program called the Whoah program and NA was doing the same thing I was doing. And me and a guy met at a trade show and uh, he goes, ah, I was in the one 87th. I said I was in the 180 7. So we realized we were in the same unit. And uh he said, I can get you guys.

Mitch : (34:43)
I said, that're awesome. So he sends this one guy and he says, ah, this guy's gonna be late. His name's Perry. He's gonna be like eight o'clock at night. Cuz he works still he's wounded. But he's working at division headquarters. Cause he wants to finish his time out and retiring his terms. I said, no problem. So this truck pulls up late at about eight o'clock, nine o'clock at night, it's dark. And I see him pulling ATV off his truck said, Hey brother, you shouldn't, you don't have to bring an ATV. We have everything you need. Here. He goes, oh I didn't know. He turns to me and he goes, boy, I know you from somewhere. And I go, well you look familiar to me. I know I know you from somewhere, but I don't know where I know you from, but I know, I know you.

Mitch : (35:20)
And he goes, I've been bill up 18 times. I'm blind in the eye. I'm deafen bold ears. And I can't remember, but I know, I know you said, what unit were you with? And he goes, I second brigade. And I said, oh I was third brigade rockets lead the way he goes, yeah, you rockets signs. And we go inside, you know, know so we're laughing. And in the light now he could see better. He says, boy, where you from? And I said, New York. And he goes, and he takes like a step back. He goes, I'm Perry Thorrington. We went to sniper school back in 90 together. And it was the weirdest thing. But his face went back. I mean, now he's all scarred up. He's a little fatter than he was back then. we all are. Absolutely. And he'll get mad at me for saying this, but he looks better now. No, I'm just kidding. But his face went back and I realized I'm like, holy, Perry. Now he comes on every hunt in Kentucky and he volunteers his time and he's the network. It's guys, the comradery, the network. That's how we find most of the individuals that we help.

Stephen J: (36:21)
What I think is so great though, is, uh, you know, in recent years the stigma PTSD has come way down. I think people are realizing that PTSD may be as simple as insomnia flashbacks. It's not that, uh, what they used to call it. You know, the Vietnam guy would come back and snap, right? And now, you know, Justin and I were involved in a, in a weekend for warrior thing that they were doing here in, in locally where they would take guys from the service who have been retired for a while and, and give 'em a weekend hunting and fishing and having that network that they could build. And really just saying, thank you. But the programs that you're doing is not just for military it's for police, it's for fire it's EMTs, uh, along with the military guys. And I just think that being able to have the network, being able to have the resource where they can go and just share their feelings, share their experiences. Sometimes it's just the experience of doing something with somebody else, right? Just that escape, getting outta your own head and getting it, the therapy that they need.

Mitch : (37:19)
Yeah. One of the soldiers came up to me one day and it was crazy. He goes, Hey Mitch, you know, you're doing camouflage therapy. And I said, what? And he goes, well, you know, we go in the woods and we are camouflage, but the therapy's camouflaged and what you're doing that's right. And I went, holy, he's right. You know, we don't, we're not a clinical, we're not S I'm not a doctor. We, we say the healing happens at the table. You know, we jaw act, make fun of each other. Sometimes people don't get it. Like when the civilians are like, oh my God, you made fun of that guy. We got one guy comes on few hunts and he created one of these reunion hunts for all the guys that he, um, was in Walter of read together with. And he said, Hey, can we do this rabbit hunt?

Mitch : (38:03)
And I'm like, yeah, no problem. So I said, we'll set it up and we'll do it. And he goes, yeah. I'd like to get all the guys together again. No problem. He's got two, he's missing a leg. He's got two sticks. So we call him tripod, you know? And everybody's like, oh my God, that's so mean. he tries to say it was four. He had this, you know, injury buddy. we know better carried over . But I mean, we tease each other and you know what, because of that, people realize the stigma kind of washes away. We get rid of the white elephant in the room right away. We're gonna break your stones. And if you don't like it, you can pull us the side. But nobody does cuz they're like, this is like when I was back in. Yeah. Whatever it is. And that's what they really are missing. So we just do it under the guise of going hunting, fishing. And then we eventually, when we build this lodge, we're hoping to do maple syrup, production, competition, barbecue, agriculture, anything to get them employed, not sitting around and thinking about the horrors of what they, whatever they're dealing with. So

Stephen J: (39:10)
Yeah, I think the one thing that people miss sometimes is PTSD isn't necessarily from one incident, it, it could be a cumulative thing of a 25 year career, whether it's EMS, police, fire, military, you know, you don't need that one big one, but that stress, as you said, we give a piece, but we also have a backpack we're carrying, we put a piece in that backpack and that backpack gets pretty heavy at times. Oh, absolutely. And, and the, the release, uh, of doing something, you know, I, I always try to get our guy guys to have a hobby or do something outside of work. Don't make work, everything you do, especially our young guys. Uh, and sometimes they listen and sometimes they don't, but you know, the charity work and that's where I met you originally was being involved in charity work. Um, to me is such a release cuz we do see the battle all the time.

Stephen J: (39:53)
We don't get called for birthday parties. We get for, you know, when grandpa passed out at the birthday party or had a heart attack, that's what we get called. Right. And, and it it's wearing. But when we do the charity work, whether it's for PTSD or children's cancer foundations or what have you or law enforcement, it's that good stress that oo stress that we're bringing into our lives, uh, and helping one another, cuz we're helping on the job. But it's helping outside the job too in a different way where we lift everyone up and, and, and I love being a part of that kind of stuff. I love being able to put smiles on faces. I love being able people just release and just that big, deep breath that you're able to give them. It's so powerful. And it's priceless. And, and, and what you program is doing, man, it's, it's inspirational. I use that word a lot lately, but it really is because far too many people don't see it as the benefit. They look at it as the stigma and it's breaking down, you're breaking those walls, man. And it's really helping us out. Yeah,

Mitch : (40:52)
No, I didn't realize the impact. It would've been, you know, I just thought it's a great idea and I can help somebody. I, and uh, like on my, um, website, I have the video and there's one kid on the, on the video. He came on one of our first hunts in New York and then a year and a half later he calls me and he says, Hey Mitch, I don't know if it means anything, but the day that you guys had the hunt was the day I was actually gonna kill my self. And I was like, what? And he goes, I had it all planned out. Um, but you kept pushing me and I decided to go. And then when I came and I saw that people cared about my sacrifice and now he's part of the church. He has a job, he has a child, he does some other type of, um, I don't know, what's called Scottish something, some kind of sport where they throw the big rocks, the lodge.

Mitch : (41:46)
Yeah. Yeah. And they wear the kilts. So, you know, listen, he came out and he, he realized that, you know, that's not the avenue to go and I never expected, like I didn't, I'm not, I didn't go into it doing that. I went into it cuz I thought it was the right thing to do. And like I said, I only have certain skills. Like now we have a canine companion program that we're doing. Cuz I trained a lot of dogs. I trained dogs for the PDs. Especially since I've been retired, I've trained a bunch of dogs or PDs and I train overseas. So I have the skills. So I'm gonna give that so that somebody can have a better life. So,

Stephen J: (42:20)
So Mitch, if you could go and tell your 21 year old self, and I think you were obviously on the right path or someone who's 21 now who wants to get to where you've been? What, what, what great advice could you give them?

Mitch : (42:31)
Well, listen, I'm not saying follow your dreams, but if you're, if, if you have a goal or vision or a feeling that you have inside and you know, sometimes you may not wanna tell everybody cuz you're like, ah, it's embarrassing, but do it because you know what, your life is only fulfilled by you. Not by, well, some people think by I, you know, I'll buy, I can buy this. I can get a car, you know, service to your community service to your country can be fulfilling. And if that's what you wanna do, then follow that dream and make sure that that's, you're gonna make that accomplishment. And you gotta put the effort in, you know, you gotta run and do, you know, be able to pass the physical and make sure you do well on the test and take your time and all that stuff. So

Stephen J: (43:23)
Yeah, we've talked about it. You gotta make sure you are happy, right. And as long as you are happy and you're fulfilled, then you give back to everyone else. We gotta take care of you. Yep. You know, and I think that's exactly what your program is doing is taking care of you and then giving it back. Oh, absolutely. And, and it's great. The one question we always end with with everybody, Mitch is how do you define a hero, man?

Mitch : (43:43)
Ooh. How do you define a hero? You know what, someone who's selfless, no matter what gives a hundred percent of what they have, cuz sometimes it's not enough. But if you give a hundred percent what you have to somebody else when they're in need and they're, you know, in some type of danger and you just re disregard your safety or anything, that's a hero.

Stephen J: (44:10)
I think it's fair to say you and everyone else is sat in that chair as a hero. No question, which you're doing with hope for heroes, what you've done through your career, what you did with your military service, man, you're, you're a hero. Well thank you. And it's inspiring to watch you continue to be a hero to so many, because like you said, with that young kid, you didn't know you were gonna save his life that day. Right. But you're doing that. And I, I ventured a guess for a lot more people than you realize, man. So thank you for doing

Justin: (44:38)
That stuff here on multiple levels.

Stephen J: (44:40)
Thank you very much. You know, it's, it's a privilege and honor for us to be friends and to continue helping other people through the network. You know, we've met through other charities and every time, time, like I said earlier, if I got something that you can help with with the person you're there and, and vice versa. And I appreciate that. And that to me is, is such a heroic effort that you're doing and the people on your board just wanna thank them. And thank you, man. Thank you. It's amazing. The heroes that we get to sit down with Justin.

Justin: (45:15)
Yeah. That was a, uh, that was some intense stories that, uh, you know, I'm not always prepared for.

Stephen J: (45:21)
I had no idea about his military service obviously knew he served, you know, based on the, the organization, but I didn't know about his story and that man, we sit here and we talk to these guy and Mitch was just amazing

Justin: (45:33)
Today. Yeah. Yeah. And we talk about nine 11 and every time I hear someone who was there, share a story about it. I always get a perspective that you didn't get on the news because either they didn't report it or they weren't allowed to be there. And uh, it's always, it's always just a wild, wild thing to hear, uh, those different stories.

Stephen J: (45:55)
One thing we're gonna have to do Justin is we're gonna have to do the, a first that we've never done before. We're gonna have to share two pictures of this podcast. Mm-hmm because Mitch brought the service puppy that he's raising and we got to meet him. It was

Justin: (46:06)
The cutest dog I've ever seen in my life.

Stephen J: (46:09)
I mean, this, this puppy is adorable. So we're gonna share two pictures we're or wanna Mitch. And we're gonna share one of the service dogs that he he's training right now. And uh, Hey, we're gonna share obviously his website on our podcast, uh, platform. So you can, you can donate to him too.

Justin: (46:25)
Yeah. Uh, yeah. All the links to, uh, his organizations. They'll all be on the, behind the ten.com.

Stephen J: (46:32)
Well, once again, thank you for listening to behind the ten.com and hearing about how our heroes are heroes with the 10 on and off, please make sure you like follow, subscribe and share behind the ten.com. If you know someone that should be on our show, or you have an idea for our show, send us an email behind the 10 gmail.com.

Justin: (46:49)
If you have a question, check out the new feature that we have@behindtheten.com where you can leave us a voicemail, leave us a voicemail. Ask us a question. If there was something you wanted to know more about that you didn't hear check it out and if it's cool, we'll play

Stephen J: (47:03)
It on the air. Yeah. We're starting to accumulate a lot of questions that you're asking and we may do an episode just on, uh, answering the questions and getting a inside look for behind the 10. Well, once again, thank you guys so much. Look out for another and stay safe.